My NEC involvement began long ago. And I have discussed these issues in the past with several experts, one of which hired on the PRR in the 1940s. I assume that you knew Belknap who is now deceased.
Since you mentioned 1966, send me a email at rrengr1776@aol.com and I will send you a PRR signal plan correct as of January 1, 1967. It shows for the northbound home signls and the 834 distant signals that they all displayed Clear, and the only code change was when the Shore home signal was at stop.
Do you really think there would be much political mileage from granstanding by charging Bostian with criminal negligence for simply losing situational awareness for a couple minutes. I don’t see it.
If the prosecuting authority is elected - there is much political capital to be mined from grandstanding. Isn’t that what politics is at its bottom line - GRANDSTANDING to attract the vote.
Sure, if the cause you are grandstanding over is a cause that will attract votes. I think life in prision for Bostian for simply making an honest mistake would be a cause that would repell votes instead of attracting them.
Blue Streak. The GG1 Washington Terminal event resulted from something, possibly ballast kicked-up, that moved a lever blocking air-passage on the train air line between the GG1 and the baggage car immediately following. The engineer had applied the brakes, but the only brakes functioning on the entire train were those on the loomotive, since full release brake pressure still existed on the rest of the airbrake train line. This made whatever the ATC system communicated to the train ineffective.
Another thooght is that if the speed control for curves etc was reflected in the signal display, the control for speed restrictions might have been removed so that singal aspects would be in complete conformance with the genereal many-railroad common Northeastern signal practice.
!. Was not speaking of WASH incident. PRR incident at Frankford during WW=2.
2. That does not compute as the signals and ATC before Frankford were changed to approach 60 right after the 188 overspeed even before service restored.
Signals northbound after Frankford still shows clear if track conditions permit.
Airline pilots are liable all of the time for their errors, but they’re usually dead, so it doesn’t matter. The Colgan crash in Buffalo and Air France 447 are two recent examples. Sometimes, when people die, “oops, I wasn’t paying attention” just doesn’t cut it.
The Washington Federal Express accident of January 15, 1953 occurred because of braking issues as you described.
This was one location on the PRR where the signal system was used to remind of a lower speed. The last southbound PRR signal 1339 showed Approach Medium when the next and first terminal signal at New York Avenue showed Clear. Not only that, the cab signal would drop to Approach Medium at 1339 and the engineer had to acknowledge. I do not remember whether the ATC speed limiting was in place at that time or whether it was added to the locomotives later.
This was one place where the signaling was used to force slowdowns when there were no trains ahead.
The engineer only learned about the braking problems when he applied the brake at signal 1339, and the rest is history.
Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 10:34 AM
BaltACD
243129
BaltACD
243129
So this is your take on the reasons for the #188 disaster?
So what are you detailed takes on the #188 incident - you have to have many more insights than I since it was the failure of your craft. I don’ want your continual canary turds, lets have some factual insights - wow me with your experience and knowledge of operating locomotives and trains on the NEC. It is your time to shine.
Yes I do have many more insights than you and they are all here in this thread. You have read this entire thread have you not?
Scattered chicken scratchings. Wow us with ALL your insights NOW in a single post.
My thoughts, insights and reasons for Amtrak’s debacles are contained in this forum and you want me to assemble them into a single post for you? Given your obvious lack of knowledge of railroad operations ‘in the field’ that would prove to be a waste of my time.
To borrow a charlie hebdo tactic , do your own research I am not going to do it for you.
Others who have posted to this thread would also be interested in seeing a complete, concise, statement of your thoughts, and if you were to gather them togehter all would be able to get the complete picture that you would present. Can you not reproduce them from memory?
Losing situational awareness for a couple of minutes!!! Would not the inclination be to slow down when you don’t know where you are?
Bostian is also a victim. A victim of Amtrak’s inadequate training procedures. This and the 501 disaster are clear indicators that training along with poor vetting and poor supervision are the root causes for these accidents.
I think it is quite possible that if Bostian lost situational awareness, as the NTSB says he did, he probably did not realize he had lost situational awareness. If it did realize it, I am sure
Euclid
Could it be that the agenda is to get the blame off of Amtrak by putting it on Bostian?
I think it’s someone grandstanding for future political office. Always an election coming up.
Do you really think there would be much political mileage from granstanding by charging Bostian with criminal negligence for simply losing situational awareness for a couple minutes. I don’t see it.
Losing situational awareness for a couple of minutes!!! Would not the inclination be to slow down when you don’t know where you are?
Bostian is also a victim. A victim of Amtrak’s inadequate training procedures. This and the 501 disaster are clear indicators that training along with poor vetting and poor supervision are the root causes for these accidents.