I have taken the time to read evryone posts and i have just 1 simple thing to say. If you wanna take pictures of the trains and who doesnt??? come on over to the Rochelle trainpark and snap away!!! You can take all the shots you want hassle free.
Why are these weird times?
Have we suspended the Constitution, Habeas
Corpus and the rule of law?
Dave
But a cop seeing a digital SLR might not realize that fact. I might want to start carrying around a 35mm roll just in case…
npbnrailwayfan The wife and I take photos of BNSF, MRL, and Amtrak trains
right from our front porch, the trains are about 100 feet away.
Like to see them stop us!!!
I’m honestly not so worried about Big Brother as I am about Little Brother. Every time a cop stops me near the tracks, I realize I’m 17 and HATE Graffitti, and that the cop may suspect something along this line.
But when it comes to a fellow railfan reporting me for driving into FT. Worth yard to get a shot of that MoPac SD70Ace that was parked 100 YARDS from the fence I get a bit annoyed. I understand that if I were killed, it would cause the roping off of all tracks in the region, but I frankly don’t care if I were to get a good shot…
It’s too bad everyone is so sue-happy now. My dad told me that “back in the day”, in Stockton, CA, were the WP and SP yards are side by side, SP people would respond to trespassers by telling them to go over and shoot the WP. WP people would respond by telling you you could do whatever, as long as you didn’t get in the way of a train moving out.
That was before the dark times. Before the Empire…
[quote]
Originally posted by dsktc
Why are these weird times?
Have we suspended the Constitution, Habeas
Corpus and the rule of law?
Dave
You will make all those fine arguments in court. They wont be heard by the person who arrests you. And, these are weird times because terrorist activity is forefront in everyone’s minds now,and a very easy excuse for just about everything involving trespassing. .
I simply offer advice. Take it, or dont, live with your choice.
Indeed, I shall make all of these fine legal
arguments in court and prevail.
Dave
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by rkcartwright
Oh yes they will hear about all of that, and much, much more.
Those very arguments will be heard by the person who arrests me, my attorney guarantees that.
And the following civil suit against the officer and his or her department will make sure that the message gets through in the most fundamental and costly way.
Or, we could follow someone’s advice, and stick our heads in the sand and leave it up to someone else…that is what you’re saying, that our Constitutional rights are not even worth a night in jail?
Cause if you are, then I think you missed the whole point in civilians having rights in the first place…
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by rkcartwright
My advice: Stay away from Spain, even before the bombings train photography of any kind, even tryin to take a picture of the missus in a station brings a number of law enforcement officers running, all of them shouting; NO PHOTO!!! NO PHOTO!!, and don’t even think of trying to take a picture of an actual train as they will quickly arrest you.
Putting a uniform on a half-wit doesn’t make him any less of a half-wit, probably makes him more so.
I did that once…took me a week to get there! Too bad there aren’t more places where you can safely take pictures without any chance of harassment.
I had a good day on Monday, I went railfanning for a few hours, and everybody was friendly and not a single person looked suspicious!
Certainly there is no law against taking pictures of trains, or anything else in a public setting. And a private security guard can’t do much of anything besides look menacingly at you, unless you’re on the private property they’re protecting. But don’t lose your mind over it. We are a civilized people, are we not. Don’t let it ruin your day.
But I have some words for many of you amateur lawyers. You sould take the advice of the few wise posters here who are urging you to respect law enforcement. Don’t think that because you are able to qoute a few lines of the constitution that you are invincible. If a police officer thinks you are acting suspiciosly, they have probable cause to stop and question you. Be polite, stop taking pictures, and answer their questions. If they tell you to put away the camera, put it away. If they tell you to leave, then leave. Don’t start a civil rights rally right then and there, because you will lose. If you’re a jerk and argue with an officer, they can cite you for any number of misdemearors, most commonly, loitering. Get a little loud and you’re disturbing the peace. Use profanities and you’re disorderly. Flip them off or spit in their general direction and you’ve just assaulted a police officer. Put up a fight, and you’re resisting arrest. You get where I’m going here? You don’t know all the information about why that officer is there. There may have been a previous incident of vandalism or some other crime at the place where you happen to be, just taking pictures. You may have accidently wandered onto private property, and someone called. Do you really want to spend some time in a squad car, or holding cell, or get maced, or taserd, over some pictures? Exercise some common sense!
Respect law enforcement?! Respect them when
they’re wrong and ignorant of the law?!
I submit we need to teach respect for
the constitution and the rule of law to
everyone, including those in law
enforcement.
Quoting Justice White in TERRY v. OHIO, 392 U.S. 1 (1968):
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=392&invol=1
“There is nothing in the Constitution which prevents a policeman from addressing questions to anyone on the streets. Absent special circumstances, the person approached may not be detained or frisked but may refuse to cooperate and go on his way. However, given the proper circumstances, such as those in this case, it seems to me the person may be briefly detained against his will while pertinent questions are directed to him. Of course, the person stopped is not obliged to answer, answers may not be compelled, and refusal to answer furnishes no basis for an arrest, although it may alert the officer to the need for continued observation.”
Dave
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by coldguy
But I have some words for many of you amateur lawyers. You sould take the advice of the few wise posters here who are urging you to respect law enforcement. Don’t think that because you are able to qoute a few lines of the constitution that you are invincible. If a police officer thinks you are acting suspiciosly, they have probable cause to stop and question you. Be polite, stop taking pictures, and answer their questions. If they tell you to put away the camera, put it away. If they tell you to leave, then leave. Don’t start a civil rights rally right then and there, because you will lose. If you’re a jerk and argue with an officer, they can cite you for any number of misdemearors, most commonly, loitering. Get a little loud and you’re disturbing the peace. Use profanities and you’re disorderly. Flip them off or spit in their general direction and you’ve j
Interesting to hear that - may explain why Spain is poorly-covered by the internet rail photo sites. I’ve railfanned in France a few times, however not since 9/11. Before then you used to get odd looks but I guess they must be used to people taking photographs of the TGVs by now, and I never got hassled. It’s not just trains either - if I take a photo of a ship or dock area now (another interest of mine) I take care to do so very quietly and without advertising my presence, also making sure that I’m stood in a public area. If anyone’s about, the camera goes away. I’ve rather taken to using a camera phone - only 1 megapixel but after you learn how to use it you can get some pretty good shots, certainly good enough for modelling purposes.
Unless they are real police or point a gun at me, I pretty much just ignore anyone who attempts to interrupt one of my favorite pastimes. And of course carry my "photographers rights"with me…
Hugh:I don’t doubt your railroad photography experience in Spain so your advice is well taken, but I did not have any trouble photographing trains in stations in Spain in either of my trips in 1998 and 2002.
I photographed RENFE’s Talgo’s Euromeds (broad gauge versions of Spain’s AVE’s) and freight trains from a platform in Tarragona right across the tracks from the railroad police in 1998 without any trouble. However, when I saw what I thought was a security guard on the platform I asked him in Spanish if it was ok to phtograph trains, and he told me “no” so I left; possibly he didn’t understand my question or my Spanish. I photogrphed a few trains from public property in Tarragona without any problems after I left the station.
I met an English speaking railfan on a platform of a suburban station south of Madrid in 2002, and I asked him what he knew about photographing trains from station platforms, and he told me he never had any problems. So when I got back to Puerta de Atocha in Madrid I photographed two AVE’s from their platforms, and I left; again, with no problems even though there were some security guards walking around.
I was lucky both times, but since the bombings in Madrid in 2004 I would not photograph trains anywhere in Spain, even from public property.
When I visited Spain in 2002 I noticed the trains were all running in flat land so I had to conclude that the trains in Spain run mostly in the plains
.
I agree with your points, but let me sort of a devil’s advocate.
While many stations are railroad property, open to the public, the question whether stations owned by publ
In response to this
many states have “armed” security laws which include the right to arrest, detain, and transport people to the jail or magistrate. Best thing to do is not argue as this security person could have those priviliges. Yes even though there are no Federal Laws, there could be local ordinances that could come into effect.
Just a thought,CNW6000. The engineer may have thought that you were trying to photograph him parked too close to a crossing. Particularly if he is on 1 of a 2 track line, he may be afraid that, if he is setting off the crossing gates, people may be convinced that his is the only train near that crossing. Someone may decide to go around the gates and get hit by another train that is hidden by his. The railroads have faced large lawsuits due to this.