With all the severe weather, a question comes to mind about the procedures train crews are to follow in-case of a tornado. If a crew spots a tornado, or is provided with warning that one is nearby, what is the procedure? Do trains crews out on the line get weather alerts (I assume they do/can)? What would be the standard procedure if a crew in a train that’s underway visually spots a tornado? Emergency stop and take cover?
I heard dispatchers give severe weather alerts to train crews on BNSF,dont know what the crews procedure would be tho…
The Class 1’s all have in-house weather forecast capabilities (national contract services a la The Weather Channel) and will notify trains of watches and warnings (along with earthquakes).
In case of a warning, the trains about to enter a warning zone (Determined by GIS overlay and converted to RR milepost and subdivision) are stopped, the trains inside the warning zone are reduced to restricted speed.
(Having done two accident surveys after a tornado took on TOFC/COFC trains, the results can be dramatic…The locomotive(s) stays on the rail, but the pigs do fly!)
Oh, great! I think about all those times I’ve responded to an absurd question with the answer, “Yeah, when pigs fly!”…
…stop the train clear of any crossings (if possible), and get down on the floor or in the nose of the locomotive.
…and curse the gods of Microphor and/ or the Mechanical Department about “that smell”!
Just my two cents - faced with a storm live and in person, I’d also head for the nose - it’s usually made to protect, even if not for a tornado. There might also be less stuff to fly around if by some chance the wind was strong enough to tip the loco (I wonder what that wind speed would be…). No windows to speak of, either.
Back in the day, it’s the guys in the caboose I’d fear for. If it was me I think I’d be looking for a culvert to hide in. I suspect that a caboose would fly just like a pig.
In the noses of our engines, we have the toolbox. In that toolbox we have the airhose wrench, the hammer, chisel, and at least one spare airhose (sometimes more). On the floor under the box there’s the emergency chain, and sometimes a run-around hose… [B)]
Guess it’d be smart to pitch that stuff out the door first… then of course we’d get written up for not having it with us [:D]
I wrote to the NWS, EMD, and GE to see if any of them know what wind speed is needed to tip over a loco. If any reply I’ll post it here.
NOAA was the first to write back. Reply follows:
So this means winds between 158 and 206 MPH to overturn a train, according to the link to the Fujita Scale.
It doesn’t surprise me that the good folks at the NWS were the first to write back.
With the new Enhanced Fujita scale, the wind speeds for an EF3 would actually be 136 mph to 165 mph, as opposed to 158 mph to 206 mph on the old F-Scale. With this in mind, it might actually take an EF4 tornado on the new scale to topple a locomotive, since EF4s pack winds of 166 mph to 200 mph.
Bottom line… F3 on old scale, EF4 on new scale.
Either way…not something I’d want to see.
I’ve never experienced winds above 80mph, but I still find it hard to believe that even winds of 200-300 mph could topple a modern high-horsepower locomotive. There just isn’t enough surface area on a locomotive to generate sufficient ‘lift’ power.
Now perhaps, if the winds were GUSTING to over 200, and the wind gusts arrived at such intervals that they became harmonic, and then started to get the loco to sway in the wind, and then the higher gust came along at the exactly correct harmonic period in the wave crest, then MAYBE it might tip over.
But I’d bet my life (literally) on the safety of a locomotive over any other place above ground, except perhaps a properly-designed safe-room.
I honestly have no idea what it would take. I’ve never heard of it happening, so maybe it’s not actually known. I’ve seen pictures of coal cars and intermodal cars tipped over, but never a locomotive. Maybe this is something to ask my physics teacher?
One of the tornadoes that occurred over the weekend was rated EF-4, with winds of around 175 mph. It picked up automobiles and carried them for over half a mile. That’s a lot of power, but would it be enough to knock over a locomotive?
EDIT: Upon further thought, debris might actually be a more serious threat than the winds. If a large object, such as van or truck, was blown into the side of the locomotive at a high rate of speed, that could derail or knock it
I tend to believe flying debris or track damage would be the greater danger as compared to being blown over.
Unfortunately it takes far less wind than a tornado to put an intermodal train into the ditch. We’ve experienced several times where straight line winds in the range of 70MPH have tipped over TOFC trains and slightly higher winds have toppled doublestacks.
On the Kate Shelly Bridge on UP near DesMoines, there is an anemometer. The reading shows up on the display in the Harriman Center (Dispatch) for the dispatcher managing that corridor. If wind speeds exceed a certain limit, stack trains and TOFC trains are restricted from crossing the bridge.
BNSF has had similar problems on a bridge in Laverne, ND (near Fargo) and one is the MT Rockies.
Willy that would be a great question for a physics teacher. I’ll see if I can find one while you do that too!
I have never been told to stop my train in a tornado. i had a tornado pass 1/4 mile south of me. you never make a emergency stop. and the locomotive wont stop debris from coming into the cab When i hit a fallen tree at 42 mph and had it come into the cab that is not strong, but then again we are talking GE., If know that there is a tornado ill try and out run it if, if that is not possible then ill slow down and let it go ahead, but there is no set rule on tornado or severe weather. only floods warnings.
Possibly; however, the walls of a locomotive are very thick metal, and while there certainly are objects that, when accelerated to 300mph, could penetrate that metal, I would bet that they are relatively few. Of course, having a SUV blown at 200mph towards the cab would certainly cause some damage, especially if it hit around the windows.
However, flying debris IS the reason I suggested that the crew goes down in the nose of the unit, keeping the crash door closed. Down there you are protected my multiple layers of thick metal.
I still maintain that the nose of a locomotive would be the one of the safest above-ground place to be in a tornado.
Second that motion.
A modern locomotive has a broadside “sail” area of about 1200 square feet - around 37 sheets of plywood for a comparison. Given the narrow stance (~5’ for a 10’ wide locomotive), and a center of gravity probably 5+ feet up, I find it conceivable that a sufficient sustained wind hitting a locomotive broadside could tip it. The physics experts will have to do the math.
Given that the Oklahoma City EF5 (and maybe more) tornado of a few years ago had documented winds well over 300 mph, I’d put this in the realm of possibility. Where’s the Mythbusters when we need them?