I’m modeling the Seaboard and L&N in Florida in 1951. I would like to run a train of reefers running from central Florida to points north & west carrying citrus. My question is, what type of reefers would most likely have been used in the southeast during that time? I see lots of Pacific Fruit Express reefers in the catalogs, but I doubt those would make it all the way to the east coast. Would it be Fruit Growers Express? Or some other company I’m not aware of? Or would you see mostly the railroads’ own rolling stock? Thanks!
For shipments originating in Fla, most likely FGE and consortium partners Western Fruit Express and Burlington Refrigerater Express. (One of FGE’s car repair facilities was in Jacksonville, and WFEX and BREX reefers were often seen carrying Jacksonville shop stencils.) I don’t recall SAL or L&N having their own reefer fleets, although I think they had a few express reefers.
Inbound shipments would certainly include SFRD and PFE cars hauling produce not available in Fla, and meat reefers having a variety of reporting marks.
Great, thanks! That’s the kind of info I was looking for.
Not all fruit & produce had to be refrigerated…the Coast Line, Seaboard, FEC all had ventilated box cars that were used to carry loads that needed fresh air, not cooling. The cars had vents with shutters on the end, and an open, barred door to allow air to circulate, to keep the produce fresh. (The openings were screened with chicken wire). The vent shutters could be closed and the car had a regular box car door as well, so it could be used as a regular box car as well. Ventilated boxcars were used into the 1960s. Reefers could be used as vents also…when you see photos of reefers with the ice hatches open, they are being used as vents.
ConCor and Westerfield make models of ventilated box cars in HO.
I once called my county extension service (I live in Fort Myers) and asked the agent when various products were harvested. His reply was that ‘any time is harvest time’…shipping took place all year round.
PFE and SFRD cars wouldn’t necessarily be inapropriate. If they loaded out in Fla they could be sent back towards the home roads under load, especially in a time of car shortage. Another factor to consider ca. 1950 is wood vs steel. I don’t know about the SE US but in 1950 slightly over half of the PFE fleet was still wood. At the same time only 15% of the SFRD fleet was, due to Santa Fe rebuilding most of their wood fleet as steel in the 30s. I don’t really know about FGE but it seems to me they stuck w/ wood longer than most (as did WFX)
Oh, surely, but they’d remain a small percentage of the reefers typically originating loads on the OP’s Florida-based layout. For his purposes, I’d guess a model ice reefer fleet with a ratio of 5 (or more) FGE : 2 WFEX/BREX : 1 PFE/SFRD : 1 ART/NWX/URTX might be representative, with cars in the latter two groups shipped out empty more often than not. Also, I think it’s an unwritten rule that every layout has to have at least 1 NP reefer.
I think you’re right about that; several of the new Intermountain FGE 40’ wood-side ice bunkers would be appropriate for his layout’s time frame.
Don’t forget that Florida imported fruits (cherries, etc.?) and vegetables (lettuce, etc?) from west coast states. Thus, you’d expect PFE and other western-based reefers coming into Florida. These reefers would have to be returned westward either filled or, most likely, empty. California, in particular, was a net exporter of produce. We didn’t need your oranges: we had our own. Also, California needed those reefers to be returned pronto to be loaded for more shipments to the east.
Mark
Bugger! That’s why my reefer blocks never looked right! [:)]
Seriously, I wasn’t aware of NP having it’s own reefer fleet until you mentioned it. Did they have many?
Cheers,
Mark.
How far west would Florida citrus travel? Wouldn’t there be more coming from California east? I remember the first time I was in California in 1957. the state had more citrus groves than I ever saw in Florida.
KIM the traffic for Florida produce would more likely be north-south than east-west. In the winter California didn’t need Florida oranges (or vice versa), but New York and Boston did. I wouldn’t be shocked to see pics of northeastern reefers showing up going to and from Florida. I’m sure the midwest (Chicago or St.Louis, for example) got citrus from both Florida and Texas.
Yes, I mentioned west because I’m modeling the line running west from Tallahassee to Pensacola, but that freight was generally headed toward the midwest, not the far west.
Incidentally, after settling on the line I wanted to model, I read that most interchange between the SAL and L&N went through Montgomery AL, not the Tallahassee-Pensacola line. [xx(] Oh well, maybe the month I’m modeling there was a washout on the Montgomery line. [:-^]
Thanks for that info. What companies do ART, NWX, and URTX stand for? I’m not familiar with those.
ART - American Refrigerator Transit
NWX - North Western Refrigerator Line
URTX - Union Refrigerator Transit
Adding to Mark’s reply: ART was jointly owned by MoPac and Wabash, NWX by CNW, and URTX (a division of General American by your time frame) leased to private shippers and a few roads (e.g., MILW).
Identities for more reporting marks than anyone deserves can be found at
http://www.nakina.net/report.html.
From the NPRHA on-line freight car roster (see http://research.nprha.org/Lists/Equipment%20Rosters/AllItems.aspx), about 3000 wood-sided ice bunkers blt 1912-1932 (although another source gives that number as 5000), declining to fewer than 1500 in 1955. Again from the roster, NP ordered about 1300 steel-sided ice bunkers 1947-54 and about 875 mechanical reefers 1955-67.
Not at all comparable to FGE or PFE fleet numbers, but almost a requirement for hauling Yakima Valley apricots and apples.
[OT: Did you receive my email re: ply/PVC skins on foam used on your colleagues’ modules?]
Well, there you go, a reefer fleet I knew nothing of at all. Thanks for the link and the numbers. I wouldn’t mind one or two NP cars, the paint scheme looks quite attractive.
As for your email, I didn’t get it, did you get mine? I’m not sure that emailing from within the forum is all that reliable. You can email me direct at marknewton@dodo.com.au
Cheers,
Mark.
Yes I did, thanks very much, I’ll resend shortly.
More info if you’re thinking of adding an NP reefer:
The steel-sided cars were nearly identical to PFE’s R-40-23. Intermountain used to offer painted and lettered kits with the correct numbers, but they’re not on IM’s current list. The car can be modeled using the IM undec R-40-23 and Microscale 87-488, with enough left over to do a wood side NP reefer using an Accurail undec fishbelly reefer.
For late 50s and later periods, another good looking NP car is their RBL done in both 40- and 50-ft versions:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/np/np98474ajs.jpg. Both versions are generally easy to bash to get something close with few compromises, starting with Microscale 87-404 decals (including correct “CP” and “DF2” door badges), Accurail 8-ft plug doors, and Branchline undec boxcars.
Thanks again.
New York Central had its own reefer fleet also. I think it was MDT.
Dick
Texas Chief
It may not apply to your particular situation, but reefers didn’t carry only produce. I’ve heard that canned goods often moved in reefers when suitable boxcars weren’t available and un-iced non-ventilator reefers were also used to haul cargos subject to freezing during winter months. The reefers in this situation were used the same as insulated boxcars. In many instances, charcoal heaters were also placed in the bunkers to keep interior temperatures from dropping too low. The CNR, and, to a lesser extent, CPR used older wooden baggage cars to haul fruit and other produce not requiring refrigeration, with large slatted vents cut into the upper carbody. I’d like to build a couple of these cars, but good pictures of the ventilators seem to be hard to come by. [:(]
Wayne
Re the NP, in 1951 you’d see an interesting mix…they still had plenty of woodsided reefers, and were getting orders of steel cars. The woodies had yellow sides, the steel orange sides, so a little variety.
BTW going to/from the midwest you’d probably also see Burlington Refrigerator Express (BREX) and perhaps even some Western Fruit Express (WFEX, owned by Great Northern). (I assume you know “X” at the end means the car was leased?)
You could also throw in a few fun ones like West India Steamship company reefers.