I am currently planning an HO layout transfer from my parents basement to my new house that actually has a basement. My basement does not have the square footage to rebuild the layout in its current configuration, so I was thinking of a possible double or even a triple deck design. Has anyone tried a triple deck and what would be the recommended heights and spacing? My idea was a possible double deck from floor supports and then the third deck would be suspended from the rafters. I have never tried anything like this before so I figured a forum shout out might be a good idea.
multi-deck layouts need to be designed as multi-deck layouts and actually require more space not less space. They require more space because they need length to reach the next level with a practical grade (typically < 2%). And much of that length needs to be level so that cars don’t just start rolling.
A triple deck layout has a few constraints: 16" between level, leaving 12" clearance between levels is a minimum if you used two foot wide benchwork.
Starting 30" off the floor for lower level, definitely need a chair to operate. Thirty two inches up, to 64" above floor, need something to stand on to work on layout, and perhaps to operate. Needing both means you did wider aisles, eating up some of the advantages you are seeking.
Not only that. The height of the upper deck often narrows the “reach in distance” compared to the same trackage at a single level. And similarly the lower level of a multi deck is often so low as to make the far reaches not easily visible. And as Tony Koester has pointed out, care has to be taken from an operating standpoint not to put two “interesting/operationally intense” areas at the same place on the two levels. The widest aisle in the world is no help if two people need to stand in the exact same spot at the same time.
Speaking as a tall person I cannot say I am a big fan of the kind of double or triple deck layout that seems to get so much attention in the model magazines these days. I do see the advantages of having “passive” staging yards on a lower level because you can avoid the disadvantages of true hidden staging - I for one don’t even see what’s going on on that lower level!
One possible solution - the mushroom design, where the two levels face opposite directions, and generally a platform for operators is built for the taller of the two so that in practical operation the operator is at the “same level(s)” vis a vis the layout on both sides. But that can require even more acreage and a taller basement than most. And you still need a way to get from one level to another, either the slow and gradual grade or the blob-ish “helix.”
Definitely need to design the layout to be multideck, not just fold over an existing layout.
Everything’s a compromise - if my garage was alongside my house instead of taking up a huge chunk of what would otherwise be basement, I would easily be able to meet my goals with a single deck placed at an optimal height. But it’s not like that, so a double deck is what I need. Neither deck will be at an optimal height, but both are workable - I’m going with 40 and 59 inches, which is 16" from the top of the lower deck to the bottom of the upper deck benchwork. There is no set answer to the height question though. It depends on how tall you are, and how accessible you want the layout to others who may visit or run trains.
Triple would be right out for me, although I do have enough celing height to run a level above the second deck, wince there is framework there to support the second deck’s lighting anyway. For ‘hidden’ staging that would work, same with putting another level below the 40" lower deck - but it would be far too low to actually operate. As ‘hidden’ staging it would be great. But I also have a requirement to allow storage under the layout, and adding a lower staging area would interfere with that.
Although I do agree with Greg, it going to be hard to cut up your excisting layout to fit a smaller space. Redesign and building new might be the way to go.
My grandpa has a garage layout that was suspended from the ceiling like that, and it did hold up for more than ten years, but it was always quite flimsy. We have had to be careful not to lean too hard on it as it tends to wiggle and I wouldn’t trust it. Just saying that idea is possible but maybe not ideal!
Thanks for the replies gents…I knew there was a wealth of knowledge to be heard. A few details that I hadn’t thought of have pretty much put the kabosh on the tri-level idea. Mainly the “reach in” detail that I could see being a real headache from constantly bumping my forehead. I can feel it now and would rather not deal with that. Although I hate the idea of a complete redesign, it might be my only shot unless I eliminate the newer addition I added a few years ago. I think another trip back to the old basement for more detailed measurements might be on the work order this weekend. Many thanks to the forum members.
I have a triple deck layout. It is basically a double deck with a lower third deck staging area that is not intended as part of the visible layout (see the link below my signature). I wouldn’t have wanted any more than two visible decks due to the deck height issues.
In general, there are some very specific reasons for building a double deck – mainly operators looking for more run in a space. That was my motivation.
More than a decade in on my project I would say that unless you fit that specific category or have another compelling reason, I would recommend avoiding building multi deck layouts. My experience is that it is more than twice as much work to build a double deck than building two single deck layouts of the same total square footage.
There are lots of stages of construction that must happen in certain order – things like wiring, roadbed, track laying must be done and completed before you can move to the next step. I had to pull extra motivation and some help from my friends to power through certain tasks after the initial excitement had worn off.
I would design a new layout using parts of the old one where you can and keep it single deck unless you are an operations guy.
The nominal deck heights are 42", 62", and 82". The top level is viewed/operated from a center platform that is 30" above the floor so its relative height is 52".
There is about 17.5" separation between the rail and benchwork above.
I have a 37.5"/40" radius double helix to connect the lower and middle levels and I have an 84 ft ‘nolix’ between the middle and top levels.
A triple (or double) deck layout is not for everyone, but mine allows me to accomplish my modeling goals.
My previous double deck layout was also triple decked if you counted the hidden staging.
My visable decks were sataggered in height to help with the transitions between levels.
The staging level and lowest visable level was at 30" with a upper level above the visable 30" level at 48".
The other visable lower level was 38" with the upper level above those areas at 52"
I was not happy with it, I will never build another multi level layout.
I think the fundamental thing about multi deck layouts is your feeling and approach to scenery. If you are happy with the scenery concept of a narrow shelf, then you will likely be happy with multi decks.
The mushroom layout designs I have seen usually have a long path to get to the top operating platform for the mushroom section. This usually limits all pathways of egress in case of an emergency. If a fire starts almost anywhere in the layout room, you could easily be trapped in the mushroom.
I had a fire in my house once, and it is one of those things you need to experience to believe it. Your body will not let you do anything that will get you closer to the fire.
I have fire extinguishers everywhere now. Next time I will have a weapon.
If I had a mushroom, there would be something in there to suppress a fire.
My experience with multideck layouts has been that the scenery on the lower portion almost never gets worked on. Many end up only being operated on the upper level, and the owner is not satisfied.
Keep in mind, I do live in a retirement area, and my modelers here are advanced
I get that. We had the second floor of our house severly damaged by a fire, back when I was a kid, and along with all the brothers and sisters, lived at home.
Later in life, I spent 15 years on our local FD, going into structures on fire, also a state certified instructor, working for 2 local community colleges.
My father was a volunteer fire fighter, my son has been both a volunteer and paid fire fighter and is now an EMT. I passed on that hobby/occupation.
Anyplace that is too much of a “maze” can be a fire trap, no question. New homes around here are required to have sprinklers, but there is no retrofit requirement.
Even with my new single deck layout, I have no interest in floor to ceiling “isolation” backdrops that create the maze effect in the train room.
I understand the theory of creating a greater sense of distance, but would rather the room be open for a number of other reasons. Another reason to get away from multi deck designs as they tend to require the maze effect.
All the hand-wringing about multideck layouts in a fire seems overwrought. I’ve never heard of a fire starting on a layout during an op session or open house (or really, any time). But houses do catch on fire and take the layout with them.
