Turnout Position Indicator Needed - Suggestions please

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

My husband and I are new to model railroading. My husband is disabled and has is limited in what he is able to do - thus my assistance in his new hobby. We are using Atlas remote snap-switches. There is part of his layout that he can not reach because he is in a wheel chair and It is difficult for him to see the position of the turnouts. We are looking for something that will allow him to “see” the position of the turnout from across the layout (5 feet). His first thought was to find a “flag” system that would show the turnout position either by flag position or a red/green light. Is there such a creature?

The layout is a basic layout put together by one novice and his helper (me). We are looking for a solution to this problem that the helper can accomplish without having to undertake major customizing. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

2

Hi, and welcome to the forums! [#welcome]

There are a number of ways to show turnout position. It’s a common use for signals among model railroaders, including most of the signals on my layout.

Atlas snap-switches are powered by what we call “twin-coil” switch machines. They are only powered for short moments, while they are “throwing,” so the drive power is of no use in running signals themselves. Instead, you might install a “latching relay” that will operate in parallel with the switch machine, and will give you a set of contacts that can drive signals. Atlas makes something called a “snap relay” that will do just this. You can also find latching relays at electronics places. The snap relay is easier to install, because it has screw terminals and requires no soldering, but it is also a lot more expensive than a simple general-use relay.

There are a few companies that make mechanical switch-stands, models of the devices used to throw turnouts manually on real railroads. Some of these actually rotate with the switch position, and therefore provide an indicator with either lights or flags. I’ve never tried putting one on an Atlas, though. They are more appropriate for slow-motion machines like the Tortoise, but they may work. This would require a bit of a mechanical installation, nothing very difficult, if the fast-throw of an Atlas machine would work.

If you decide to use latching relays, either the Atlas or another, you should use a Capacitive Discharge circuit to drive your twin-coil machines. It’s a power-storage circuit that gives you a bigger “kick” when you push the button, which lets you throw multiple machines at once, or drive twin-coils at greater distances where line-loss in long thin wires is a problem A CD circuit also protects your switch machines in case of a toggle failure which might otherwise burn them up.

3

First a terminology clarification: model railroaders use the term turnout rather than switch–switches are electrical devices; the term “throw” means changing the points on a turnout to divert the train to a different track; turnout points are the pair of short rails that pivot to change the route of a train.

What are you using to throw the turnout? Atlas makes something called a Selector which can be used to throw up to four turnouts (one at a time). It has what look like slide electrical switches. These slide from one end of a small slot to the other end. When pushed down, momentary electrical contact is made to throw the turnout. The slide remains where it was last pushed to indicate which way the turnout points are thrown. Not the only solution but probably the simplest.

Good luck to you and your husband!

4

One simple suggestion is to look at the following:

  • Atlas Product Number: 200
  • Walthers Product Number: 150-200
  • Walthers Catalog: 2013 HO, page 252
    This is a simple snap relay that works in conjunction with your switch controller. It comes with simple instructions for doing exactly what you want. Your friends should be able to wire it into the switch circuit very easily and the cost is only about $11.00. Lookon line for the Atlasrr.com site or the Walthers.com site to order this part.
    Good luck

Dick

5

Ay place overhead where you can mount a mirror?

6

My simple way to know the position of the turnout. When the remote switch is in the left position the turnout is straight; when the remote switch is in the right position the turnout is in the curve position.

7

I built these turnout position indicators and I feel they’re a fun project and are an attention getter, Your husband can build them and you would have to do the installation.

http://www.westportterminal.de/switchstands.html

8

Welcome… [#welcome]

LION (I’m the LION) would in this situation use a single SPST toggle switch to route power to either of the terminals on the Atlas switch, and would add a push button next to the toggle to actually activate the switch coil.

So one Aux lead from the transformer goes around the layout to all of the switch machines.

The other lead goes to the row of push buttons and then to the row of switches, to the middle terminals on each of the switches.The other terminals are connected to the turnouts.

Arrange things so that when the switch toggle is down, the switch points (the moving part of the turnout) are in the NORMAL position for that route.

Move the switch toggle to the up position and press the button, and the turn out moves to the diverging or what we call the “Reverse” Position.

By glancing at the row of switches you can readily see what position the turn out SHOULD be in by looking at the position of the toggle. Press the button again to be sure if you want.

LION tries to keep things simple, soldering, according to the LION is simple.

Here is control tower of LION…

Well LIONS never said that they were not complicated animals. All levers are pushed in, all switches (and signals) are in their NORMAL positions. [For a signal, RED is the normal position, and GREEN is the reversed position.]

You do not need to make this thing so complicated. Simple toggle switches from an automotive store will work just fine, and you can use crimp on connectors if soldering is not your thing. You will also need push buttons, maybe from Radio Shack to actually apply power to the turnout.

Mount the switches in a logical order, and you can see all at a glance how the switches are set.

ROAR

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Thank you so much for the information. We’ve been struggling with this for awhile now. Should have posted to the forum sooner. Can’t believe the quick replies and helpful information that I received. Your explanation is very helpful. I know nothing about this stuff but I’m learning. My husband knows his way around electrical and mechanical things but wants to keep things as simple as possible since I have to do most everything. He was hoping for information such as this so he wouldn’t have to re-invent the wheel. Thanks again. I’m sure I’ll have more questions. This is so much better than searching on the internet.

Barb

10

Thanks for your reply and terminology lesson. We are using the parts that came with the Atlas snap-switch. I made a turnout control board that is mounted to the side of the layout table. I used the wires and switch that came with the Atlas. I wired the turnout and ran the wires back to the control board where I mounted the slide switch. The slide switch is just as you describe. We sort of thought that using the slide as a turnout position indicator was the simplest solution but also wanted to see what else might be out there.

Thanks for your assistance. I love this forum

Barb

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Thanks for the product information. I’ve searched online but didn’t find the searches very helpful. I"ll check these out.

Thanks again

Barb

12

Good thought, but no. [:)] We don’t have anywhere to set up the display except for the garage so the garage door is in the way for anything mounted overhead. Would be helpful however as it is sometimes difficult for my husband to see everything on the layout.

Thanks

13

Yea, I agree. I think my husband was looking for yet another project for me. [:S]

Thanks

14

Thanks for the information and the link. We’ll check this out.

Thanks again,

Barb

15

Wow, what a control tower - my husbands loves it! Thanks for the suggestion and explanation. I have learned to solder so that’s not a problem - I do like the crimp connectors however. Thanks for the help, we’ll give this some thought.

Thanks

Barb

16

You might also look at Tam Valley servos to power your turnouts. They come with an optional LED push button that can remotely indicate the position of a turnout. Www.tamvalleydepot.com

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Hi [:D]

If you are using the Atlas snap switches, (as I am), I suggest you get a capacitor discharge system, because you will burn out a snap switch or two, or three, when a slide switch is held down too long or gets stuck.
As previously posted the the CD gives a short powerful jolt to the turn out motor and then shuts off power until the switch is released. I built mine, but they can be found on line for a reasonable price.

Best of luck

Lee

18

Another possible idea. Mount a video camera, with a remote positioning feature, on a pole that can be used to “see” the entire layout (other than tunnels). The monitor and joy stick can be mounted where your husband runs his empire.

19

And now for the absolutely simplest.

This depends on having clearance on the end of the throwbar away from the rails. Bend a piece of shim brass (or equally thin metal) about 1/8 inch wide and 5/8 inch long, into an L with short leg 1/4 inch. With the points against the near stock rail, position the piece you just formed so that the longer end is leaning on the throwbar, raised above the short end. Drive a staple - loosely - into the angle of the bent shim to hold it in place.

When the switch is thrown to the curved route, the long end of the angle piece should drop with its end still on the throwbar, and the short end will then approach the vertical. A bit of solder on the longer leg end will add weight and improve reliability. Paint the visible ends with appropriate colors (red/yellow, red/green; yellow,green) to indicate point position and route chosen.

My second choice would follow Lion’s advice. The pushbutton should be good quality, but the cheapest slide switches are good enough - four for a buck at my favorite internet electronics supplier.

My own system provides signal and control panel indications as part of a rather complex integrated control system. You really don’t need to go there.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL)

20

Here’s one last idea, the one I’ll be using: a Points Position Indicator from Microminiatures in the UK.

http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/Points_Position_Indicator.html

(I’ll have to do some math, though, to figure out resistance values as the instructions SAY each output can handle up to 4 lights but then they leave the details up to you. I’m hoping to run two lights off each, so that the main line is open (green) while turnout #1 is closed (red). Opening turnout #1 switches the lights to green,for the turnout…you get the idea. Or maybe I’ll just use those bi-polar bulbs I picked up…)

Their site has quite a few useful electronics for the hobby modeller; they also have a store on eBay.

Hope this helps a bit!

Paul