I am having frequent derailments when my Life Like EMD 8 goes through a right turn turnout. I have
tried to adjust the turnout with no apparent success as derailments continue. Any thoughts on how to adjust
the turnout or any other suggestions to alleviate this problem? Thank you.
What kind of turnout is it?
Atlas, Peco, Shinohara?
What number?
#4, #6, #8?
Is it just one turnout or several turnouts that are causing derailments?
We need to know more.
Rich
Also need what scale do you model and do you have an NMRA track gauge?
there seems to be quite a bit on tension on here today, might have to save my question for a couple days.
butterhawk, what code is your track?(if you’re using atlas)
If you’re modeling N scale, I have a similar problem with my left hand code 80 atlas switch. It doesn’t affect my GP or F unit but it throws a wrench in the works when I run my RS1. that said I believe that the inner left track of the switch doesn’t touch the outer left rail leaving a barely visible “but still small enough to catch the flange of my RS and derail it” space.
Run the engine slowly through the turnout, and watch the wheels to see where it jumps. I’ve also had problems where an engine actually derailed before the turnout, but rode along until the more complex geometry of the turnout sent the wheels completely off the track.
Check for kinks, both horizontal and vertical. Put a straightedge on the turnout and see how the adjacent tracks line up. Take a close look at the rail joiners and make sure all rails are in the joiners, not riding on top.
Make sure the points are making good solid contact with the stock rail. A small gap will derail engines and cars. This could be caused by a defective or improperly aligned switch machine, poor installation or glue or ballast under the throwbar from ballasting.
Thank you for the replies - My layout is HO - the turnout is an Atlas # 562.
What happens if you turn the engine around and run it backwards through the switch?
Since you’ve tried various things on the turnout, maybe here are some extras to try.
Check to make sure you’re locomotive wheels are in gauge
With the NMRA gauge check the guard rails to opposite rail distance. Many times I have to add an extra shim on the guard rails to keep the wheels from picking at the frog. The guard rail keeps the wheels from going too far to the other side by pushing against the inside of the wheel.
Richard
OK, so it is an Atlas Custom Line #4 turnout.
I am assuming that it only derails on the divergent leg of the turnout, but that it runs fine straight through the turnout.
You need to begin an investigative process.
Running the EMD 8 slowly through the turnout, does the front truck make it through without derailing, or is it the front truck that is derailing.
At what point is the truck derailing, before the frog or at the frog?
Are the point rails tight against the stock rails?
Is the frog raised?
Can you see any lateral movement or vertical, up and down, movement of the trucks as they roll through the turnout?
Are any other turnouts also causing derailments?
Rich
It runs fine by turning it around - also will back through the turnout with no problem…
I stated that the loco derails - actually when running it to go through the curve it attempts to go straight
through - partially gets through before derailing.
It doesn’t seem to make any difference as to the speed of the loco - either slow (even quite slow) or a bit faster to fast it will cause the same problem. On occasion it does make the turn with out a problem.
This is very frustrating.
I did not mention this, but the turnout is just beyond a curve - perhaps part of the problem is this particular loco (EMD8) with 6 wheels on each truck - front and back. Since starting this post I have now run other locos (diesels) with 4 wheels on each truck (front and back) as well as a 2-8-2 steamer with tender with no problem. Maybe the easiest thing is to not run the EMD8 in the direction causing the problem.
Again, thanks for the suggestions and help.
LOL That is the customary temptation which confronts all of us at one time or another.
But, resist the temptation to dodge the problem. You really want to fix that turnout. True, 6-wheel axles can be finicky going through a #4 turnout, but if the 2-8-2 makes it through, the EMD8 can make it through.
It could be one of a number of issues.
The turnout may not be completely flat and stable.
One stock rail may be higher than the other stock rail.
The point rails may not be tucked tight against the stock rails.
Get up close and eyeball what is happening and where to derail the loco.
This is solvable.
Rich
If this is the only loco, then don’t forget to check for wheel gauge? First thing most experienced modelers check after a quick visual.
Richard
Sometimes it happens that one of the rails of the switch moves a bit which hurts the geometry of the switch.
Sometimes when it is one truck that derails, especially if it only happens in one direction (say the long hood forward) then I begin to think of the trucks: is there a snip of plastic or something in there which inhibits the free movement of the truck. Maybe a decoder wire is snagging the gear tower of a truck.
ROAR
I believe that the rail that moves for the curve was not moving all the way; I did make an adjustment by bending that rail a bit and for the present I trust the problem may be solved. My fingers are crossed.
Good work, Detective Butlerhawk.
That is a pretty common problem with the point rails not getting tucked tight against the stock rails.
Sometimes that point rail, which is thinner and more flexible than the stock rail, can bend out of gauge and cause a derailment as the trucks ride over the rails.
Sounds like you solved the problem. Congrats.
Rich
I had a P2K GP18 do this. One way through a curved turnout was fine. Turn the loco around and it derailed. Took off the shell and found the truck that derailed was not turning side to side enough because the wire on one side of the truck was pinched betweeen the weight and shell. After moving the wire the problem went away. Joe
From your comments on the other thread, the fix on the turnout was not totally successful.
What are you using to throw the points on the turnout?
Rich
Rich: This time I hoped I have solved the problem - the turnout was installed just before I transitioned a short piece of Atlas flex track into some left over Bachmann track; as you know, Bachmann is a different (higher) level than the flex track. I repositioned the flex track to a more level position going into the Bachmann and that seemed to solve the problem. When going through the turnout the variation in the flex track and Bachmann track caused the EMD to not negotiate the turn. Additionally, the variation in the level of the track did not permit the remote to move its track to the proper position (either straight or turn). The turnout in an Atlas remote.
As above stated, this repositioning of the track seemingly has corrected the problem. I still have some work to do to get the track in a more secure level position.
There are many, many problems that come up in this MR business and although I have been working on this for 10 years or so, I am still learning and do appreciate the help I have received on this forum.
I have learned from experience that trying to solve derailments when turnouts are involved is among the most difficult aspects of track work.
The key is to get up close and run the offending loco slowly too see when it begins to derail and what is happening to cause it to derail.
The usual reason for the derailment is the wheel lifting up off the rail.
But why?
What is happening that causes the wheel to lose contact with the rail?
Often, it happens even before the wheels enter the turnout, as in your case.
Rich
There could also be other problems with your locomotive, such as trucks that are too tight (not enough play in the swing of the trucks to compensate for sharp or uneven turns) or wheels that are not tracking straight. There could also be an obstruction inside the locomotive shell that is inhibiting free turning of the trucks. Although I don’t run my 6-axle equipment on my layout much, I do have Atlas #4 turnouts on it and the 6-axle equipment negotiates them easily.