when doing a layout how do you know what kind of turnout to use?
Well then, that is a broad wide open question.
LIOONS usually go for the cheapest that they can find. Lots of Atlas product on the road of him.
I have some nice Shinoharra tracks that I had bought in Japan back during the Vietnam war.
We have no local shop in North Dakota, so I must buy on-lion.
Go to the websites of several manufacturers and look at what they are offering, and see what fits in with your needs.
But you sort-of have to have a trackplan … No… First you must have a place–a space-- to build your layout, that will tell you what will fit. Then you make a plan… LION has ever only made plans of him in the head of him, but him knowed watt him wanted and so laid down tracks in that general direction.
BIGGER frogs make for better layouts, but you need mucho space, smalle frogs work well, but you must forgo the biuggest of locomotives.
Atlas snap tracks are gross, but… then so are subway layouts, making sharp curves here and there to switch from track to track. On any other layout they would look toy-like, but then NYCTA switches are build under the streets of Noo Yoork, and so gotta fit in between the pillars.
So if you are going to model the Union Pacific across the dseserts that is one thing. If you are going to build an Eastern Railroad twisting along the appelatians, that is an udder.
ROAR
When designing your layout there will be two limiting numbers: the radius of your tightest curves (minimum radius) and the number of your tightest turnout (called the frog number, usually, although what the modeller really needs to know is the substitution radius, Atlas often gives both and you can find the radius for Peco turnouts).
Since the prototype of our models is huge it cannot be duplicated in HO. The next best thing is to use the largest minimum radius and the highest frog number turnouts you can fit into your space.
These two numbers determine what you can run on your finished layout. The bigger the numbers the more types of equipment will run.
The brand or type of turnout is much less important than how big a turnout will fit.
The compromise may be to tighten up some turnouts to lower frog numbers in low speed parts of the layout like yards and stations leaving room for number 6 or even number 8 turnouts on main lines where tight turnouts and tight curves cause derailments especially at main line speeds.
Draw it out, then draw it again. Stay flexible when laying out the actual track. Tight radius curves pop up all too easily and it only takes one too tight to spoil the fun.
Or follow the advice of Lion, if you can draw it out in your head. It’s the same advice.
In my case, my hobby partner laid out a schematic on the actual floor of the train room in nice blue masking tape. Then I drew that more accurately onto 1/4 graph paper. Then we bought a $20 mixed pack of used Atlas flex track and some turnouts. We next built a 5x9 plywood table top. We experimented actually laying track and turnouts on that table top to get trains up and running. We are now at 22’ x 10’ and a few hundred feet of track and about 30 turnouts… be careful with that budget!
That bundle of used flex track was the best and cheapest layout planning tool we had. Like many people, I plan best with my hands actually bending and
What type of locomotives and longest freight and/or passenger cars are you planning to operate? That makes a difference for turnout selection.
I use all types, #4, #5, #6, #8, Wyes, 3-Way, Double Crossover, and Curved.
I have a #6 Double Slip, but I do not think I will use it.
All my locomotives will get through a #5 going slow, so I use those in the yard and engine facility. Out on the mainline, #6 is my minimum for the inside loop, and #8 on the outer loop.
#4 and #2 Wyes are for the industrial area and trackage where my bigger locomotives dare not tread.
Since I model 1954, I do not have big freight cars to contend with. Long passenger cars will be confined to the outside loop.
As for turnout brand/style, what type of control system are you using? Some brands and styles are not so friendly with DCC.
Please let us know.
-Kevin
Peco code 83 Wye turnout may be only a #4 but the substitution radius is nearly one meter or about 38", according to Peco.
On another old thread on this forum the Atlas Wye is said to have a substitution radius of about 40" and is equivalent to an Atlas Custom Line #6 straight turnout. The Wye combined the diverging routes from each of a LH and a RH so the frog number is not equivalent to the same frog number for a straight route turnout.
I can tell you what you DON’T use. Don’t use a turnout whose curvature between the throwbar and the frog are so tight that your rolling stock won’t go through them. In almost all HO, including a lot of brass, a true #5 turnout is about as tight as you’d be able to use safely. Larger steam locomotives would need a #5.5 or a #6 and up.
The first consideration for you is how to get a useful track plan that fits your space. From there, which turnouts will fit and not force you to have S-curves or kinks. It may be that, for your track plan that fits your space, all you’ll be able to use and to enjoy will be #4 turnouts, very sharp. But that will limit the types of rolling stock you can use on your layout.
The location on the layout is a huge factor in determining the type of turnout. For instance, I have #8 on the mainline and #4 or #6 on the yard. I know it’s confusing but I aim for large turnouts on the mainline b/c of space.
The National Model Railroad Association has a page of standards and recommendations
RP 12 covers minimum curves and turnouts for various pieces of equipment.
Paul
I can never recall the curved closure rail radii so I looked at the spreadsheet for RP-12.1 and found that the radii for the curved rail in the turnouts are recommended to be (rounded) 23.2", 35.4" and 60.5" for #5, #6 and #8 turnouts, respectively. Of course, manufacturers vary from these recommended numbers to a varying extent.
I looked for a spec on the Athearn site for the DDA40X 8-wheel truck diesel and did not find a specific radius recommended. I found a MR 2012 review where the writer noted that version was ok on 28" curves (other threads note that was recommended for that era model) and #6 turnouts. That is a reason it is missing from my UP fleet (because of my 26" curves). Plus how silly it would look.
Yes, Paul, and we know how limiting a snap-track #4 is. I suspect that Walthers still rates their heavyweight passenger cars for 24" curves, but I wonder if their QA guy ever backed three or four of them coupled through a series of #5 turnouts. Their draft gear compresses, the diaphragms ride up tight against one another, and you have to get the sky hook out.
I learned about the Walthers/Shinohara curved series of Code 83 DCC-Friendly turnouts, and I learned that I also couldn’t believe their claims for the heavyweights. Those cars didn’t back nicely, at least the way I lay HO rails, until my curves were a lot closer to 28".
[#oops] That’s RP 11[:$]
Paul
If you check underneath you’ll see the rear end of the trucks hit the centre beam at 24" radius.
Another peice of advice from the LION:
Do not be afraid to rip stuff out and build it again.
They do this on the realroad, and we do it on our own tables.
Remember that vertical curves (grades) have to be accounted for too.
When I was buildin I went through three 100 pc boxes of meter long Model Power flex-rail. I bought it from Trainworld in Brooklyn. (That is to say my local hobby shop.) [LION used to live in Brooklyn, ewe know]. I haven seen it there in years, but then I havent looked.
ROAR
I second this idea. Laying track perfectly exactiy where you want it first time is very difficult.
There are several ways to affix track to roadbed. Track nails through the holes in or drilled by you in the ties are generally easy to remove and re set after changing track alignment. These do not hold in foam so many use latex sealant (sometimes called acrylic as is the paint it is related to) to stick down the underlay and then the track on top. I use now clear (labelled translucent) but I have used grey (aiming at ballast colour) left over from a kitchen job.
The advantage of using latex sealant is the relatively low grip. There’s not much loading on track so it doesn’t need to be very firmly secured. Latex sealant allows you to lift the track and underlayment fairly easily AND reuse it.
Pay particular attention to laying any turnouts as that’s where most locomotives and rolling stock get finicky about things like kinks or jinks or gaps in the track.
What is the brand name of this miracle low-grip removable latex sealant?
All the latex sealants I have used grip like a locking plier and don’t give up easily.
-Kevin
THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR HELP.
DAP. Cheap and doesn’t stick all that well to the plastics used for ties nor the foam underlay from Woodlands Scenics. Cant
Can’t say about cork, homasote or wood. Main issue with low adhesion glues sticking too well is using too much, yiu thrn
Sorry, that long URL is not very convenient. Hinders editing the text also.
I meant to say that using too much even low grip adhesives can lead to a vacuum effect holding stuff down more strongly than the adhesive itself would.
On our layout table the track comes up and so does the underlayment quite easily. The foam tack glue from Woodlands Scenics is very strong by comparison as is PVA white glue or yellow carpenters glue.
Latex sealant is designed to be pulled away for renewal purposes. Silicone might also work in that way for the same reason.
This track was layed perfectly the first time, the lazer says so:
I have never installed a piece of flex track with any expectation of taking it up and reusing it. The track in these pictures is attached with PolySeamSeal adheasive caulk, it is not coming up in one piece.
That said, I do not glue down turnouts, they are held in place by the surrounding track and a few track nails.
Sheldon
If you’re on a computer, use the BBcode [url] tag syntax for these. Used the right way, it makes words or sentences ‘clickable’ through to the target URL.
This is done by going directly before the text to be highlighted (no space) and typing [url= and then pasting in your URL, then ] to close the tag. At the end of the text you want highlighted, again with no space, type [/url] and when you post, the magic should happen…
Problem is, I can’t demonstrate it from a criPhone. I’ll try to stick an example in using your long URL later tonight.