Finally settled on a plan,it will be basically a U shaped plan.As for the benchwork i would like some pros and cons as to which is better Lgirder or Open grid.Thanks
There was a spirited discussion about it not too long ago. You might try a search on the topic.
Let’s get the debate going. I favor open benchwork, mainly because I happened to have several pallets and four low dressers of practically the same height. It so happened that I had planned on benchwork with the width of a pallet. Pallets are great since they are extremely strong and one can cut a hole for a pond or river, and the bottom is a ready made support for the pond or river in a ravine. The dressers provided not only a stable support, but provided oodles of handy storage space. I am fortunate in having an interior stairway ( no crawl under, or entry lift out required), to the a 24’x24’ garage loft ,(because I had a layout plan , and had it constructed with a hip roof, and 2"x12" floor joists to support 12-18 club members. Open gridwork is, also, mandatory, since the layout consists of peninsulas that take up most of the room. I also have cut three access holes to get to hard to reach areas. One rather new idea, is a drawer pull-out pond in front of the large sawmill base, that can be lifted out as well, if I need access to multi-switches behind the sawmill complex. Let’s see other ideas! Bob
My first layout last year was open grid, I was so unhappy with the results and difficulties steming from benchwork, I scrapped that layout. My second is done on L Girder and I am very pleased with the strength, flexibility and appearance.
My first was an L shape, the second is a U shape. My website has alot of construction pictures.
Good luck,
Joe
What’s the difference? Isn’t L-girder a form of open grid?
Short answer, No.
Open Grid: Requires the EXACT cutting for proper fit of a Butt Joint and the ability to cut a square end for the corners. Benchwork changes are hard to do
“L” Girder: Very little skill for any carpenter work. Hardest part is the matting of the parts for the “L” Girder. Benchwork changes are Easy to do.
The difference in the amount of wood to build either is very little. THe chance of losing wood due to carpenter problems is higher with the Open Grid.
I used both on mine so no problem with either one.
Do you not end up with a open gridwork of crosspieces by using the L-girder technique?
I ask because I have been doing this for 30 years and have never heard anyone differentiate between “L-girder” and “open grid” before.
I found it very easy to make an open grid, and I’m not much of a carpenter. For me, the trick was buying a gadget at Home Depot which is used to form square joints. It’s basically two perpendicular clamps, and it holds the two frame pieces at right angles while I drill and screw them together. The other clever gadgets are just a tape measure, T-square and a hand saw.
I use 2-inch foam over the open grid, with trestle risers to produce elevation changes. I don’t use plywood at all.
My layout is a 5x12 foot “island” which is supported by 6 legs. It has wheels so that I can tuck it under the 45-degree roof to get it out of the way, or pull it out to work on the back. Even with my primitive woodworking skills, I managed to create a light, rigid framework that I can push around on a medium-pile carpet by myself, without disturbing anything on the surface of the layout.
Open grid
Advantages: are more room under the layout for storage, work benches etc. While I haven’t done it, it looks easier to build a cabinetry face on the under part for a more finished look. Can easily be made modular for a move. It’s relatively easy to build if you have the proper tools.
Disadvantages: Harder to build with hand tools, primarily because you need to cut multiple pieces to the same exact length. Purchasing a radial arm saw is an extra expense, but does make it very easy - it can also be used with a Dado to make stronger joints. A compound sliding miter saw or table saw might also work well, but I don’t have these.
L girder
Advantages: easy to build with hand tools as no precise cutting is required. Easier to place cross members at angles.
Disadvantages: harder to finish the under side, difficult or impossible to make modular, less head room under the layout for storage, workbenches, etc.
L girder has been touted as requiring less wood, but I’m not sure if this is true or if the amount is significant.
I’m not sure what the strength differences are, but either one should hold up your trains easily. If you need to climb on it, open grid may be stronger.
As usual my [2c]
Enjoy
Paul
Morning Midnight! (I just had to say that) [8D] Couldn’t resist.
I’ve always been heavily influenced by the writings of Linn Westcott. He describes the two approaches, the pro and con in his book on benchwork.
Others have done a good job here of explaining the differences. Ditto on the headroom comment.
Best regards!
Joe
They each have their advantages. Thats why I used a combination on the layout I’m building now.
You can see both types being used in this pic of my double decker layout. (Not fully finished, but you get the idea)
I have to disagree with this.
“Open grid” evolved from the lack of scenic flexibility that is inherent with straight up plywood construction. Someone realized that if you removed the plywood and relocated the framing, you could create a better and more realistic model railroad. So yes, by definition, they are both open, and they are both grids.
L girder now is a more refined open grid, and really refers to “the better mouse trap.” It’s lighter, and allows modifications because of ease and ability to fasten and unfasten from the L portion of the lumber. You can’t do that on a 2x4 without toeing it in. That is it’s main distinction, but in essence, it’s function is exactly the same. It allows the surrounding terrain complete freedom from the elevation of the roadbed.
The terms have changed, I think…you used to have just 3 ways to describe the benchwork: plywood, cookie cutter, and open grid. At least that’s how many of us view it, myself and Midnight Railroader included. Now the L girder is referred to as a completely different method, but it’s still “open.”
I agree. They may have been initiated in different camps and at different times, and maybe they have evolved enough over time that there really is little difference between the two from the point of view of what they are able to afford in the way of flexibility with what runs around and over them.
I use L-girder for the long sides of the frame of my modules, and then inset diagonal and perpendicular joists rather than place them atop as in the traditional L-grider design. So, I have modules that can be disassembled and removed with some work and minimal damage to the scenery…all the rails and electrical are gapped so that the modules can be easily parted.
Here is what it looked like when I was getting to the stage of placing the splines atop the risers.
Everybody has been giving their opinions about L girder and open grid construction - but nobody has yet defined the key differences:
- L girder: The main beams (L - or in my case, C - girders) are UNDERNEATH the cross-joists, set in from the joist ends (and the eventual fascia.) Main advantages are that everything is fastened from underneath (no hunting for screwheads in the scenery) and the joists can be of varying lengths (sinuous fascia) and of any dimension (scrap lumber welcome.) The disadvantage is the total depth of the framework, from girder bottom to joist tops, is about twice as great as open grid.
- Open grid: the main beams are the edge joists of the grid, to which the cross-joists are butt-jointed. The advantages are the hard straight edge (which may not be an advantage) and reduced total frame height. The disadvantages are weaker joints (screws into end grain versus solid support from below,) rigid dimensions (set in cut wood by the edge joists) and a need for more precise carpentry (all cross joists really need to be within 1/16" or so of the same length.)
I, personally, have chosen to use L-girder framing methods with steel stud materials (hence C girders,) for reasons which I consider important but will not discuss. While this works for me, I can see that others (especially module builders) might have valid reasons for different choices. The final choice is, as always, up to the individual.
Just my [2c]. Feel free to disagree
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I recently finished my first 20’ of a new layout, using the L-girder method. I found it easy to do and with all the advantages expressed in earlier replies. Biggest I see are ease to build, strength in final result, and ability to move joists around later as needed for turnouts or other layout changes. Lots of flexibility for valleys and hills in later scenery. There is a curent Kalmbach book (sorry I don’t have title at hand) which clearly shows how to construct all the different kinds, and shows difference in each. I know “Benchwork” is in the title.
Have fun constructing… Hal
I recently finished a 21 x 24 layout using open grid. This was supposed to be my retirement home but so were the two previous editions… Therefore, I thought a little forward planning was in order.
I built my layout in 2 x 6 foot sections so that if the next retirement home appears I can move the layout.
I predrilled the cross members for wiring and since I was using plywood, attached screw blocks to each cross member. All this was done in the garage to eliminate mess and hold together a 43 year marriage… You old guys will know what I mean…
I did everything on a production line basis and having acquired the essentials of life (table saw, miter saw, and air compressor) commenced production.
I made additional cross members in the event that I need to reposition or add extra bracing.
By keeping the cross members the same length my around the wall layout went up fast. I did add other custom pieces where I had to follow corners but that posed no problems.
I probably would have gone with the L girder method but it does not lend itself to moving as readily as the open grid…
Either way will provide a sturdy basis for your layout…
Good luck and have fun
Roger