I was wondering what would be the typical consist for the Broadway Limited. I recently purchased the rivarossi passenger set in HO scale and it occured to me that most of the cars in the prototype passenger set were probably sleepers and diners as opposed to coaches. What I would love to know is how many?? I would also like to know how the cars were put together (Head end, RPO, Baggage, etc…) Does anyone out there have this info? Thanks in advance.
Hello Jim,
In our October 1994 issue we had a special feature on the 1949 edition of the Broadway Limited (the train was given new equipment in that year), with foldout drawings of all the cars (the PRR cars, that is) and a story by Classic Trains editor and PRR fan Rob McGonigal. Rob included a representative Broadway consist of 1950:
(All cars run between New York and Chicago except as noted.)
RPO car
4-4-2 sleeper to and from Los Angeles
21-roomette sleeper
12-4 sleeper
4-4-2 sleeper
Sleeper-lounge
Twin-unit diner
4-4-2 sleeper
Four 10-6 sleepers
Sleeper-lounge observation
The New York-LA sleeper would be the only car not painted Tuscan Red. The Pennsy had three pre-war Imperial-series sleepers painted two-tone gray for this transcontinental service, and the Santa Fe, providing the Chicago-LA link, contributed stainless steel 4-4-2s from the pre-war Hotevilla series (named for Native American pueblos and other place names). The twin-unit diner included a dining-room car with seats for 68 and a kitchen-dormitory car with sleeping accomodations for the train’s service crew. There were no coaches or chair cars, as the Broadway was “all-Pullman,” sleeping accomodations only, until 1967.
The Rivarossi RPO is a very close stand in for the Broadway RPO named the Robert Hannigan. The two square end observations were Tower View and Mountain View and had master staterooms with showers. An 8/30/59 list of cars on one of the Broadway trains has:
unknown RPO
Imperial Vale 4-4-2
Fishing Rapids 10-6
Chartiers Creek 12-4
Imperial Lea 4-4-2
Catalpa Falls 6 br-lounge
4620 dining car
4621 kitchen dorm
Imperial Trees 4-4-2
Connestoga Rapids 10-6
Cippewa Creek 12-4
Clarion Rapids 10-6
Muskegon rapids 10-6
Mountain View 2 master br- 1 double br-lounge-obs
8/1/49 WB Broadway
GG1 4898
RPO 5239
ATSF Jadito 4-4-2
Zanesville Inn 21 roomettes
Alliance 21 roomette
Conewago Creek 12-4
Imperial Rudge 4-4-2
Harbor Rest 3 doble br-lounge
D85CR diner 4602
D85DR kitchen dorm 4603
Imperial Peak 4-4-2
Lehigh Rapids 10-6
Little Miami Rapids 10-6
Tieppecanoe Rapids 10-6
Raccoon Rapids 10-6
Mountain View 2 master br- 1 double br-obs
The ATSF car arrive Chicago via ATSF Chief train 20
9/30/48 Broadway
BP60A (Two unit Baldwin centipede diesels) 5831
RPO 5449
BD85R baggage dorm 6691
Thanks for the info NDPRR. I knew about the Keystone Crossings web site, but I guess I never looked deep enough to find that information about the passenger cars and the models that represent them. Now I can start to assemble a good representation of the Broadway Limited for Davis and Pennsylvanian RR. One day I will post progress reports on how it is going. Thanks again!![tup]
Andy, as usual, YOU ROCK!!! I really appreciate the information and I will order that back issue!! I could really use those foldout drawings to assemble a prototypical Broadway Limited in HO. Thanks [swg]
Just in case anyone is wondering, the RPO cars assigned to the Broadway had a short baggage compartment at one end for passenger baggage.
Earlier incarnation of the Robert Hannigan type RPO, based on the Rivarossi car. I built up a higher arch roof, 6 wheel trucks, and porthole windows in the doors. Baggage compartment on the right:
I always associated these type of RPO’s with heavyweight equipment. So this RPO ran with the 1950’s Broadway? I guess you never stop learning in this hobby. Thanks!! (Your RPO is really nice [tup] )
It wasn’t unusual to include heavyweight headend cars in a train otherwise made up of lightweights. The heavyweights might be repainted to help give a uniform finish to the train, sometimes with some superficial exterior modifications.
Mark
The RPO is in WWII era configuration, not 1950’s. I only posted it to show the typical Broadway arrangement of a long RPO and short baggage section. It is not an exact model as it should have taller rectangular windows. It is closest to the PRR BM70n configuration. The PRR had a large number of RPO’s of many, many different configurations, ands seemed to be constantly rebuilding them. The original Rivarossi model represents a BM70nb, with short rectangular windows, lower arch roof and four wheel trucks. There were fourteen of them (rebuilt 1950-53), intended for Broadway service. They were originally built in 1910 as M70’s (all RPO, no baggage), and had passed through a number of rebuilds over the years. Some had spent a few years as B70’s (all baggage, no RPO).
Edit:
After I wrote the above, I re-read Keystone Vol. 26, No.1, which is the definitive work on PRR RPO’s. It seems my model is nearly correct for one car, Robert Hannigan, which served on the Broadway. It was rebuilt in 1946 with short windows, but had the low arch roof, and porthole doors. It was the only named RPO on the PRR. Number should be 5239. Close but no cigar.
So the Riv RPO that came with the set I bought is a reasonable stand in for the 1950 Broadway. OUTSTANDING!!! All I have to do is replace the trucks with metal wheels, apply some Kadees and lightly weather it and I should be good to go. Thanks to all for your replies…I am researching the other cars listed above to see if I can make the generic sleepers and diners closer to the real prototypes listed above. Who knows? Maybe I can get an accurate Broadway Limited of my own…I will keep you all posted
I preface this with a declaration that I’m not a Pennsy guy!
Of the Rivarossi cars, the following are Pennsy:
the obs
the 10-6 sleeper WITH a beltrail below the windows
the RPO
the uppy-downy sleeper (also known as a 12 duplex-five DB sleeper)
The remaining cars are UP except for the coach which I don’t think has ever been nailed down. I recall someone speculating it could be KCS, but…
Ed
Not only is the Rivarossi a good model of the actual PRR BM70nb as used on the Broadway 1950 and after, but you may be interested to know that it was intended to be run with the baggage end first, up against the locomotive. The bagg end is marked by the wider door.
I have quite a collection of Rivarossi passenger equipment from various roads that I acquired during the 1980s and 1990s. I know they are generic as opposed to being road specific but I always thought they were good looking cars and with a little work could be made into good running equipment. Obviously they need more weight for their size. Interiors are a help in that regard. Since I’ve always run radii of 30" or greater, I would convert them to body mounted couplers. The ones I still run are given diaphrams. The wheels were probably the worst part of them. Do they still come with the oversized plastic wheels with the pizza cutter flanges?
This is true if you are referring to their being painted in many incorrect schemes; but, with the possible exception of the lightweight coach, I believe they are all models of actual cars (ie. NOT generic). For example, see my earlier comments.
Ed