I’m starting a new layout and considering putting staging below the main layout. I would like to ask those who already do this the following:
How much height difference do you use from your main level to the lower staging level? 2) How much running length (in feet) are you using for the transition between the two levels?. 3) Do you like having the staging under the layout? 4) Approx. how much of a grade do you think is acceptable for this transition?
I would think you would want at least 6 inches of clearence on the staging for handling cars and other problems. Any other recommendations would be welcome (previous mistakes, lessions learned, if I was doing it over again [:)]
I haven’t done this, but a friend of mine who lives near Tombstone is building an under-layout staging area on his layout. Be sure to leave enough vertical clearance so you can reach in. Your plan of 6 inches vertical clearance should be sufficient, depending on how many tracks and how deep a reach you’re going to have. You’re going to need some type of detection to know when trains are reaching the end of the tracks. My friend is using a closed circuit TV system with a low-light camera. Keep the approach track at no more than a 1% grade if possible, and put rerailers into it.
6" clearance is good. I used 5" and it is OK but 6" would be better. My layout allowed me to build it with no grade in or out of the staging yard as it is covered by upper levels of the layout. If you need grades the inbound can be steeper than the outbound. My yard is used in one direction only and I did not install switch machines on the outbound end, the engines just move the points.
One other point - install the yard as part of the inital construction and not after. Don’t ask how I know? I also installed a TV and it is very useful.
Rerailers are a good idea, hadn’t thought of that for some reason. I had thought about a web cam but I’ll problably just use sensors and LED’s on a schematic panel
I have a lower level staging yard and it is 7" below the next deck. I wanted more seperation but didn’t want to have to climb/descend anymore than 7". Staging is acessed from a helix at one end: two + turns at 2.% and from a very long hidden climb at the other end, once again around 2%. It takes about 30 feet to climb 7" at 2%. I don’t recommend steeper grades (experience with 5% grades on a previous layout has confirmed this opinion). I used rerailers after turnouts and I kept most of the yard throat along the aisle edge of my yard so they are able to be hand thrown. The staging works very well for me and solves a space issue. You must plan for it up front. It was the first part of the layout I built. I used code 100 track and Peco turnouts. So far operation has been flawless. To see some pictures of what I did click on the link in my signature and scroll down about halfway to pictures of the new layout. For dectection I will be installing photoelectric sensors using a circuit I found on Rob Paisley’s site.
I haven’t actually built my layout yet, but I did design in under layout staging. I will drop down 12" using a 30" 3 turn helix. I opted for more drop to get my large hands in without knocking everything around.
My HO layout has a 4 track staging yard underneath, with about 5" minimum clearance in most spots. More would be better but the grade would have been too steep. As it is, I have a short stretch that exceeds 4%. It hasn’t been too much of a problem, though I really do need more than one locomotive on most trains.
My yard is single ended and the ends of the track run up to one edge of the layout and are visible. My detection system is to bend down and look.
I would definitely recommend building this kind of thing first, even though I did just the opposite as I was reusing parts of a previous layout that had to go over the yard.
I have a G shaped HO layout with hidden staging directly beneath the visible portion. I t has 5 staging tracks that are each 14 cars plus 2 engines long. The staging tracks lead to a 16ft long reverse loop so all trains can return to staging headed out the proper way . From railhead to railhead is 8.5 inches so there is 4.5 inches of open space below the upper becnhwork. I would liked to have had more room vertically but didn’t want to build a helix to get between the 2 levels as it is I have grade of 3.9% to climb to get out of the staging area. It does take 2 four alxe gp’s or one sd 45 to pull the 14 cars up this climb.
Guy. The Helix you built is very interesting. It’s had to tell from the pictures, but I’m guessing its about 32 to 36 inches in diameter with 2.5 inches height between deck loops. Made of 1/2 inch thick plywood. Does that sound about right?
I think 6 inches is way too small. Speaking from experience, my previous layout I had 8 inches which I thought was good enough to reach in to rerail something. Wrong. Makes it very difficult to do any kind of work in the area (and you’ll have to) other than just a simple truck off the track. I made sure my new layout has 12 inches and it is much better. There are two levels of this staging (12 and 24 inches below the yards) and although it works, I’d prefer to do it a different way if I could. I use a helix for each of the two staging levels to get up to the yards, grade is about 2.5 percent which is okay.
The diameter is 65", radii are 30" and 32.5" Distance between railheads is 3.75" per loop. Sub-roadbed is 1/2" plywood. There are actually two helixs in one. One climbs up from staging to the lower level and then a second is a double tracked helix climbing up to the upper deck. You can see this in the photo by looking for the gap in layers. That is the start of the second helix. In the double tracked portion, The second track is for staging. Both the lower and upper helix have tracks running around them, one for staging escape on the bottom level and the other is for lower level loop and a reversing loop. There is over 300’ of track in the helix and hidden staging on this layout…I built the layout to operate and with the idea in mind that I will continue to acquire rolling stock . Rule of thumb: @18 40’ cars for every 10 feet of track. If one builds 10 cars a year for twenty years one ends up with around at least 100 feet of storage needed.
I have 2 hidden yards under my layout. If I could do it different I would. They are 3 tracks each and no helix. It takes about 45 feet to get down to each of them. I have about 8 inches of clearance and to me that is not enough. If I need to remove power and have to reach across another train it is a pain. My yards are side by side so it is actually 6 track deep. Also they are not through yards the loco & cabboose must be removed and swapped ends to return to layout. Just wanted to point out some possible problems to avoid in design
One thing to keep in mind is the difference between a fiddle yard and a (strictly speaking) staging yard. Staging only parks trains. Fiddle yards allow for the 0-5-0 arrangement of rolling stock. Fiddle yards will need quite a bit more vertical clearance to operate sucessfully.
I have a large yard on the top that is accessable for building trains and switching out locos etc. My staging is designed only to park trains…Not to re-arrange rolling stock. This means (provided I can run pretty derailment free) that I don’t need the vertical reach across space in the staging areas. If there is a derailment I can always move stuff out of the way. Having said all that I would have liked more clearance than 7". My advice is to make as much space as you can.
When designing the layout it is important that you have a space that is pretty good sized just to put trains on and take stuff off. If this is going to be in a staging area it changes the design of the area quite a bit. .
Thanks everyone for your advice. I will need to rework my new track plans to allow for 12 inch clearence on the lower level. I will keep the tracks near the front to ease visibility, tinkering and maintainence.
One thing to keep in mind is the difference between a fiddle yard and a (strictly speaking) staging yard. Staging only parks trains. Fiddle yards allow for the 0-5-0 arrangement of rolling stock. Fiddle yards will need quite a bit more vertical clearance to operate sucessfully.
True, but you will need 0-5-0 access to staging also. Murphy will bite you if you don’t.
My first caveat is that I have not built my current HO layout. I have finished the design phase and am just starting construction. But I have spent a lot of time (too much?) planning it.
It has 2 staging areas: one with 6 tracks and another with 5 tracks. The 6 track yard is double ended so no fiddling is needed between operating sessions. It’s about 12 feet long The 5-track yard is a loop so trains entering as one entry in the timetable return as a different entry in the opposite direction. It’s about 10 feet in length not counting the loop.
Grades are limited to 2% (except for cheating in one place at 2.5%). The staging yards are reached by traveling the length of the mainline which runs twice around the room and up a central peninsula. The room is 24’ by 16’.
I was very concerned about hidden yards for the reason everyone has discussed: access. I mocked up an arrangment with a typical “town” above and staging tracks below. I observed that 6" is what would be needed to rerail a car. So that’s the minimum. The 5-track yard has 6" of clearance and the 6-track one has 8".
I also located all the turnouts near the front edge of the yards to avoid deep reaches when trying to adjust troublesome turnouts. And, I am going to use a diferent support structure above the staging yards. I will use metal brackets from the wall edge of the benchwork to support the upper road bed surface. I’m using 1/2’ plywood with 1/2" extruded foam as the base. That thickness is an inch and I didn’t want to give up more clearance for thick supports.
But here’s the part where I’m trying something different. As has already been mentioned, if all you’re doing is reailing an occasional derailment, 6" is OK. But guess what. I know I will have an issue with one of those staging turnouts someday. And, the 5-track yard is underneath a large classification yard which has its own complex of turnouts above. I know that I’ll need to work