I was reading this months MR, and the article about the Reading RR layout by Jim Hertzog gave me an idea for my layout. He has a staging area under one of his other yards. His has a clearance of 8 inches. This gave me the idea that I could do it on my layout that I am still trying to plan. I would actually like to do it very similar to his. I would have the staging at one end of the layout, and then go completely around the room and gain height as I go, with a modeled yard at the other end over the staging yard.
What I would like to know is what does everybody on this forum suggest as an ideal and realistic clearance height? I think I can make between 10-12 inches with a constant grade of 2% all the way around the layout. I am modeling modern equipment, with 22" minimum radius on the main. Do you think it will work?
Looking forward to any and all suggestions and ideas.
There are 3 things to consider when planning a staging area under your layout.
You need to leave room for your hands. There needs to be access to any wiring or turnout mechanics for the main level. When figuring the grade, don’t forget to include the thickness of the benchwork.
On my layout I have about 14" of separation, and use a helix for access.
Go for as much vertical separation as you can! On a previous layout I had a staging yard about 10" below another yard. Although possible, it was very difficult to re-rail equipment, adjust trackwork and adjust switch machine linkage for the tracks above.
My current layout has a lower level with a staging yard whose rail height is about 30" above the floor and a another level whose rail height is between 55 and 60 " off the floor. This leaves plenty of room for work. The lower level is operated while sitting on office chairs with casters making the upper level above the operator and invisible. The upper level is operated while standing making the lower level right in front of the operator invisible. As a bonus, the “duck-unders” in the upper level become “glide unders” as operators roll through on the office chairs without bending.
I came up with an idea for this a while back, and posted it, but it quickly died so some trolls and poles could take it’s place.
My plan requires some shop work. Not much, just pretty basic stuff. If there’s a cheap Chinese tool place around you, go get a variable height shop stool (the kind with a little pneumatic cylinder) and a two level roll-around tool cart. Then, instead of putting the cart together with the legs it comes with, put the cylinder out of the stool underneath the top shelf, so you can raise and lower it. Then build a staging yard on top of the shelf, at the right height that you can roll it up to the layout, and have a track coming off the end of the staging yard, and one off of the layout, so you can drive the trains right onto the board. When you’re through making trains, pu***he top of the staging yard down, and roll it underneath your layout, out of the way. This will give you a staging yard that you can easily reach and work around, but doesn’t take up space when it’s not being used.
I built under the table reverse loop staging under my last layout over 25 years ago. With end of route reverse loop multitrack staging one can “park” trains there after their run and bring them back out when the timetable calls for it. The secret is to have rerailers after each switch and you will never have to worry about reaching under there. Also I blocked each track with toggle switches, each block accommodated my longest train.
Some sort of occupancy detection is a must , probably the easiest is the infra red type.
I am planning a new layout based on the activities at the New Haven Railroad’s New Haven Union Station. The west end electified zone will disappear into a hidden staging loop (after the Rye curve) and at the East end of the station is another representing the Cedar Hill Classificaton Yard. The Shore Line (reached via helix to the upper tier) will have a hidden staging reverse loop after Old Saybrook representing Boston.
New York/Maybrook freights will go from the NY end staging through the station and into the Cedar Hill Staging. GCT passenger trains (Washington/NY through trains also) will have an engine change to steam or diesel and continue on the Shore Line to the Boston staging. Shore Line freights will originate and return to the Cedar Hill staging and hold over in the Boston Staging. West bound passenger trains will change to electric power at New Haven for the trip to NY/DC.
The operational possibilities are enormous reflecting the high activity level of that station in the early nineteen fifties. The bonus is that you are not taking up valuable real estate on the main level to accompli***he same thing .
I just started building my layout (finaly) and I am using a helix to drop me down 11". I just built the benchwork for about half of it today. The staging level will be at 35" , the lowest spot on the operational level will be where I come off the helix where it will climb up about an inch before I encounter any operations. So my lowest operation will be at 47" with the highest tracks at 53", this is where most of the operation will take place. It’s kinda backwards of most layouts that start at 50 or so inches and climb upward, I didn’t want a taller helix and this gives me the impression of a valley. I think it will be a cool effect, and gives me the challenge of building and installing bridges.
That is a pretty good idea Greg, but how do you power the tracks that are on the cart? Do you connect temporary wires each time you build trains?
The staging yard will only be 3-4 tracks, so fortunately it won’t be too deep. I am trying to figure a way to build the upper level with a thin profile, so that I don’t have to sacrafice too much space. One quick question what distance between tracks should I have?
Big Rusty, I would like to see your layout as soon as you have anything, even a pic of your track plan.
My ‘mainline’ trackplan runs from concentric hidden reverse loops 8" below the main level (accessible turnouts) to linear hidden storage (on sector plates) 16+" below the shortline’s top-of-the-grade terminal. Each reverse loop can hold three trains, plenty to provide the desired density of freight traffic.
Haven’t wired it yet. When I do I expect to use cascaded latching relays. Each train will proceed to a fixed point, determined by track contact location, in the open block closest to the loop exit. As trains back up each new train will stop well clear of the rear of the train preceding. When a train is released from the loop to operate a ‘down’ schedule, the next train will move forward, then stop; repeated, if there is a third train on that particular balloon track. Other than lights on the panel, for information only, it’s a ‘send a train up and forget it’ system.
I’ve learned to take extreme pains when laying track, and those hidden loops will be thoroughly debugged before they are finally covered over.
Keep us posted. I was blown away by Rick Abramson’s New Haven effort in MRR. Your vision of NYNHHRR activities at New Haven sounds even grander. I have to admit NH power switch overs at NH always impressed me. Overhead wires seemed to be everywhere. Plus was an opportunity to actually see GG-1’s up close although at the end of their careers.
I suspect some New Haven fans here. The original layout plan was drawn for a layout in my two car garage, but I couldn’t do what I wanted to do in such a small space. Since I am concentrating on the activities at the Union Station that has to be the centerpiece of the whole shebang. I had it on a diagonal so it took up about 30 feet including throat trackage. I had completed the West end drawing including the motor storage area, the two pocket tracks, the coach yard, and part of the platform trackage as well. Fortunately, the New Haven only used one single slip switch, the rest all normal turnouts.
I also completed the drawing for the Shore Line on the second tier including the exit from the South portal of the East Haven tunnels (helix) and past Lake Saltonstall, Branford, Madison and ending at Old Saybrook.
Since I couldn’t work it in that space I have refinanced my mortgage and taken cash out to build a 24 x 44 foot model railroad building with 12 x 15 foot workshop attached with batch and shower. Incidently, that will provide almost 50 feet for the station area trackage, allowing almost a full prototype replica. I am a professional tax preparer so everything is on hold until after April 15th.
The track plan is huge, so I don’t know how to post it from CadRail. If I can, I will. If all else fails, I will post in progress photos. It is my practice to build the entire bench work before laying any track so that may take a while. Hope to have the building ready by the end of August.
The reseaerch is the hard part. Even though I lived in the New Haven area for many years, and spent untold lunch hours parked on Union Avenue above the motor storage area, that was a long time ago and thousands of miles from Scottsdale, Arizona.
I used the same idea except I have loop staging yards which I stacked to save space. I only have 4 inches of clearance which is hardly ideal but because of the large visible yard at one end of the layout, I didn’t have room to achieve greater separation. I would have either had to go with a steeper grade which is already 2% or eliminated the flat areas for my towns which I didn’t want to do either. Because the staging yards are loops, I don’t do any fiddling with consists on the lower level and I can reach all parts of the lower loop in case of derailments, which fortunately I haven’t had any on this loop.
BigRusty that sounds like one big undertaking. I think that from the sounds of it the best way would be to have update photos. Good luck with the building, I hope there are no hangups and it will get done on schedule, so that you can start with the layout.
Greg- have you made one yet. I would love to see a picture of a finished product. Do you think there would be much of a stability problem do to the pedistel?
I have a plan for a layout with lower level staging. Lower level is at 38" and upper is at 52". I will be using a two turn helix to traverse lower to upper.
I was loking at a staging under my layout as well. In the Decmber issue of model railroader the fella design a drawer that pulls out under his layout and had a track that runs too it. he just pulls out the draw to the track he wants and takes the train ar cars he wants. he made the drawer pull out futher than the edge of his layout so he could place cars or trains with ease with a minimal amout of clearance.
This is what im doing I have aready built the drawer. mine it 80 in long. the one in the book is 16 feel long . It depends on the room you have and how deep you can make the drawer.
I hope this idea may help you.
I mentioned before and I can’t stress this too much. Take it from one who has been there. You MUST put a rerailer after each switch. The whole idea of under table staging is that you can safely send and retrieve trains from that storage yard without fear of derailments. The use of rerailers makes it possible to have as little as 6 or 8 inches of clearance. It is not a “fiddle” yard. Whole trains are stored there for return as required by the timetable or your whim. This does not preclude that you might have a clasiffication yard where you make up local freight consists.
