I’m throwing this out to the gang for any advice anyone has to give.
So yesterday, there I was running my post-war 736 when all of a sudden the train stopped cold, and there was smoke coming out of the locomotive shell where the E-unit lever slot is. The circuit breaker on the transformer tripped as well. “Oh brother, this ain’t good!” says I.
Today I took the engine assembly out of the shell and placed it on the tracks naked (gasp!) just to see what was happening. With the E-unit lever in the “off” position the engine runs fine, but in forward only. With the lever in the “on” position the thin copper winding wires on the E-unit solenoid housing begin to glow like a light bulb filament where they join, and needless to say the circuit breaker trips. “Oh boy, this really ain’t good!”
I’m assuming I’m the proud owner of a blown E-unit. Dang, it’s only 65 years old!
The rest of the wiring’s good, no breaks, grounds, missing insulation, or any of the usual suspects.
Any ideas anyone?
By the way, today I picked up a used, “as new” MTH N&W Y6b. Man, am I having fun with that thing! What a monster! It weighs as much as an M-1 rifle! So the whole day wasn’t a disaster after all.
You have a short circuit in the coil someplace. You said the coil glows like a lightbulb. If some of the coils are glowing, but not all, then look at the area between the glowing and non-glowing coils for the short. If all of the coils are glowing, then the problem is likely internal to the coil and your best bet will be to replace the e-unit.
Thanks Earl! The whole coil doesn’t glow, just the soldered junction of two coil wires, you know, the bare copper ones? If the whole coil was glowing I’d have had a heart attack!
I’ll check for any shorts, but as per your supposition I’m suspecting a new E-unit is in order.
Oh well, there’s a train meet up the road in a few weeks, maybe the Lionel parts guys will be there.
have you considered detaching the E unit, testing it in isolation, and seeing what behavior you get out of it?
i don’t want to be the annoying person who’s first trouble shoot is “did you try turning it off, and then back on again?”, but sometimes, just, taking things apart, testing individual components, and then putting it all back together, to the best of my abilities, is worth doing. On occasion, not saying this is the case here I have discovered things that I did not realize, until my 3rd or 4th attempt at rebuilding/repairing a troublesome piece of equipment. Things that make me want to smack my forehead, or question my abilities at problem solving.
Good luck, I’m going to continue to see if I can think of anything that might be wrong, at the moment though, I‘m as stumped as you must be- definitely sounds like some kind of short is occurring, but I’ve never had anything like that on my equipment before.
You’re not annoying Leverettrailfan, far from it, I appreciate all the advice I can get, so thanks for the input! Anything that gets the gremlin out of this thing is appreciated.
I don’t know if I’m the first person with a glow in the dark E-unit, but if I am, well, somebody had to be first!
I bought a engine at a auction. SO figured I would test it. IT was a small transformer at first and the engine trid to move, so my thinking back then was well lets hook the ZW up. What I didn’t know there was a short in the smoke unit, and when I gave it a jolt of power I first got about a 3" flame, then came the smoke as I shut it off and thought I needed to check my pants lol. But all was fine and the engine moved on once I put a new smoke unit in it. Was a wake up call thou. If engine doesn’t want to move check things out first lol. This was about 6 - 8 years ago.
Since you said it tripped the breaker, you may have a spot where the varnished magnet wire wore through and is touching the loco chassis. Examine the joint where this is happening and where it is glowing it may be possible to lift the wire and get it off the chassis.
And you may also have a cold solder joint. Try cleaning off all the old flux & solder, scrape the wires clean, and resolder with fresh solder.
I have had many instances of a bad solder joint (particularly old ones that used acid core solder like in postwar stuff) working for a very long time and then with age/oxidation/corrosion within the joint because the original joint was never clean (and in some cases the varnish on the magnet wire was not completely removed) the joint gets resistive (thus the ‘glow’ and smoke), and eventually the continuity finally fails.
You may still have to replace the unit if you cannot find the short. If you find the short you may be able to fix it by sliding some electrical tape under the problem area.
Thanks Mr. McClellan, that solder joint is exactly where the “smoke n’ glow” is coming from. I’ll try your suggestion and clean and re-solder the joint.
Won’t be at it until this weekend, but I’ll let everyone know if it works, or not.
I recall that once, when I was a younger, more inexperienced person, i acquired a postwar track cleaning car. In an attempt to help the motor, which was having issues, I put some conductive track cleaning fluid onto the commutator…
Now, of course, I am well acquainted with postwar motors now, and I know, that the only thing you should ever apply to the commutator face is alcohol, when you are scrubbing the face clean, but, at This time, I had yet to learn. I put the car under power, and was rewarded with nothing at first, and then … smoke!
I couldn’t get anything out of that poor motor for some time after…
eventually i erraticated the stuff from that poor motor, and thankfully, I’ve learned my lesson for sure!! Never again!
Don’t feel bad Mr. Leverett, I used Hoppe’s #9 to clean the commutator plates on my 2018. Hey, it’s great for cleaning guns, why wouldn’t it work on Lionel motors?
Folks, don’t EVER do that! When I put it on the track it bucked, groaned, and shrieked like it was having a nervous breakdown! I almost had a nervous breakdown!
Out came the motor and out came the alcohol. A good swab-down and it was back to normal.
At least I never put Hoppe’s down the stack for more smoke. I may be stupid at times but I ain’t crazy!
