I am an avid Union Pacific modeller based in the United Kingdom. I am currently building a model based very roughly on a section of Track 3 over Sherman Hill. As a UP fan for many years, I have built up quite a wide range of HO scale equipment but now that I actually have somewhere to run my trains, I’d like to do o a little more realistically.
I am in the process of collecting the new Walthers City sets (the City of Los Angeles and City of San Fransisco); the first 3 cars arrived this morning However, I already own a set of 10 Rivarossi Two-Tone Grey cars, and a set of 9 Bachmann Spectrum Yellow Heavyweight cars. What I would like to try to find out is whether or not these cars would be suitable for the period and area I model (mid-1950s steam-diesel transition)…
I have a few books here, but they focus mainly on the locomotives. Whilst this is extremely helpful for knowing what engines I can run, it doesn’t help with the passenger trains. Could anybody provide me with some guidance? I guess the two fundamental questions I need answering are:
Did UP still use the two-tone grey cars in 1950s, and if so, in which trains?
Did UP still use the heavyweight cards in 1950s, and if so, in which trains?
Get the book, The Union Pacific Streamliners, by Ranks/Kratville. It will provide the detail you need. It has a section in Chapter 1 that talks specifically to the history of these two trains. It has car blueprints and many interior/exterior pictures. It’s a great read on the UP’s streamliners.
These two City trains in the 50’s ran regular consists of streamlined cars, including articulateds. However, there were many occasions where a heavyweight, an extra RPO, a substitute car, etc. were added into the consist to meet specific traffic demands. Many heavyweights in the 50’s were used in branchline or secondary passenger service, though if an extra train was needed, consistency was set aside, and traffic managers did what they had to do to meet traffic demands.
Your two questions do point to the fourties rather than the fifties.UP did not scrap their older cars as soon as newer were acquired so these have indeed been used in the fifties but were a standard in the fourties.Heavyweights have slowly vanished in the fifties,being replaced by lighter aluminum made cars and the two-tone grays scheme was also replaced by the standard UP Yellow,about the same time diesel power became more and more available.
However,I suggest you steer your research towards UP’s Challenger trains (not the locos) and my personal choice,the Portland Rose with 1935-45 era as a time reference.You could also visit Union Pacific Historical Society’s website and pay attention to their mag,the Streamliner.The site has a brief description of every issue’s content and you could order back issues on line.I’ve done it…reasonable fee…quick shipping…and best,outstanding infos.
Thank you both for your very quick replies. What you have said has helped to confirm my suspicions; namely that the two-tone cars are really too late for the period that I model, but I could run the Heavyweights in yellow.
To follow up on what Bob said about running extra trains, this brings up another question… I know that most freight trains ran as “extras”, hence most of the locomotives that I have purchased having an “X” before the locomotive number in the number board either side of the smoke stack; for example, I have a BLM Big Boy #4023 and the number boards are “X4023”, denoting an extra train.
If a passenger train was run as an extra, would the same convention apply? My thinking is that I could run my set of Heavyweight cars behind a locomotive with an “X” on the number board. For example, I have a superb BLM 4-8-2 steamer running as X7000; could I put that in front of the Heavyweights and run it as an extra passenger train? I have tried it and it looks pretty stunning, so it would be great if I could actually claim that it might have really run…
Absolutely,by all means.The 4-8-2 Mountain type locos were locos “of choice” for passenger service,as well as 4-6-2’s,4-6-4’s and the very impressive 4-8-4’s.UP has also used 4-6-6-4 Challengers on passenger trains when they were available and that the trains to be pulled justified it.Many times,trains that were too big to be pulled by a single non-articulated loco,were broken down to two different consists.However,I have no knowledge that a Big Boy has ever been used in passenger service.Powerful as they were,they were way too slow for this purpose.
Thank you also for your very quick response, and suffice to say I’m glad that it worked like that as it means I have a ready-made train to run - UP 7000 with 9 Yellow Heavwights in tow [:)]
It’s funny you should say that. I was given my 7000 as a present and I had passenger service in mind when I asked for it, so it’s worked out perfectly. I also have the Athearn Genesis FEF-3 running as X844, so that could also go in front of the Heavyweights if I wanted a change…
Thanks again for your help; very much appreciated.
An extra passenger train on the UP was identified by the number of its engine (as was common practice for extra trains generally), and the engine would display “X” and its number in the train indicators (the railroads’ term for the angled “number boards” on UP and SP locomotives). However, it was much more common to operate special and overflow passenger trains as sections of a regular schedule. Such a train running as a second section of the westbound “Pony Express,” say, would display “2-37” in its indicators, for “Second Thirty-Seven.” The first section would have displayed “1-37,” and also green classification signals, flags by day and lights after dark.
I have yet to see anyone come up with a workable system for changing the displays in HO scale train indicators. Personally I model the Santa Fe, and at a time when UP engines operating over “our” rails by trackage rights followed Santa Fe rules by displaying only their engine numbers in the indicators. Decals do that job just fine!
While running passenger extras was certainly unusual on the UP, I’ll note that on page 121 of “Union Pacific Steam, Northwestern District” by Ehernberger and Gschwind, there’s a photo of #7862 (an LA&SL 4-8-2) in use on a passenger extra. The date is September 10, 1952. The engine is in two-tone.
And, while most of the pictures of the 4-8-2’s in the book show them in passenger service, on page 100 #7014 is pulling freight and on page 25 #7855 (another LA&SL) is pulling a circus train extra. Both of these are also in two-tone. I believe your model is all black, but I wouldn’t worry a lot over that. You might prefer to view #7000 as “dual-purpose”.
Now, the above comments are set in the Pacific Northwest, not Sherman Hill. Your results may vary.
Not only have a watched 844 on YouTube, I have a number of DVDs; several of the Pentax Big Boy series and also some very recent releases showing 844 and 3865 out on the main line in the US. I hope one day to visit the States and ride behind one of these magnificent locomotives…
Thank you very much for your detailed message, which together with all of the other helpful replies I’ve had has really helped me decide what I’d like to do; namely run #7000 and #844 with my heavyweights as some form of passenger extra; whilst unusual, they could have run…
I’d also like to add that this is the first time I have posted in these forums, and I’ve been delighted by the responses I’ve had to my questions. I’d like to thank everyone for their generous help and advice; this information would have been very difficult to have come by over here in England - what I wonderful thing the Internet is!
To help clarify, based on your questions. Yes, you can use some of your older-style cars in certain situations. Remember that WW2 disrupted all civillian production. After the war the railroads were all in a rush to re-equip their passenger services. There was a backlog of several years in car orders, so older equipment was used until the replacements could be built (and afforded). On the UP the Streamliners got the newest and best equipment. A “City” train should be all streamlined and in Armour Yellow/Harbormist Gray with diesel power (EMD E-units preferred). One interesting exception is the “City of St.Louis” (Trains 9&10). The CoStL was seen with quite a bit of two-tone gray cars and with rebuilt heavyweight cars. There was a network of seconadry trains. These got the “hand me down” lightweight or heavyweight equipment, often mixed. There are photos of UP secondary trains across Kansas that were all Harriman style heavyweights in the mid-1950s. The order to repaint all UP passenger equipment into the Streamliner scheme came in about 1952 or 53. Obviously not all the cars could be repainted immediately, but in the 50s the UP did take pride in its passenger service, so most cars didn’t wait long. The last two-tone gray cars did show up in secondary trains, or some head end cars on the mail and express trains. As the diesels “bumped” the steam power from prime assignments, they also bumped each other. Trains that had rated a 4-8-2s before started getting 4-8-4s, etc.
One use of older equipment was the troop trains that were still seen on the UP in the 1950s. Troop trains tended to get all sorts of older equipment in various colors. Note - a troop train has minimal, if any, baggage cars and wouldn’t be handling mail or express. They were very plain trains with no ammenities.
However, I already own a set of 10 Rivarossi Two-Tone Grey cars, and a set of 9 Bachmann Spectrum Yellow Heavyweight cars. What I would like to try to find out is whether or not these cars would be suitable for the period and area I model (mid-1950s steam-diesel transition)…