Can anyone tell me if the UP challenger is still running and if not will it be comming back now that the big boy will be running in the furture.
Dennis Ewing
No, it is not running. UP has stated that now that the 844 is running, all effort that is not expended on the 844 will be going to the 4014. UP recently released a quick update on both the 844 and 4014, you can see that here: http://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/steam-update-2-1-2017.htm
3985 has been mothballed until both the 4014 and 844 and up and running.
Suspect UP will have its hands full keeping all three compliant with required inspections once they are all operational again. Suspect there will always be two locomotives operating and one undergoing inspection and rebuilding.
From a friend who works in the steam program at the UP. The plan is 4014 up and running by 2019 in time for the 150th anniversery of the Transcontinential Railroad. Then throw everything at the 3985 and get her up and running by 2021 or 22 at the latest. As for 844 the trip they took to TN was a test to see how well she could handle long runs and according to what he has seen and heard she aced it. No problems at all have been found in the post trip inspection at all in any major systems they found no busted staybolts nothing that will prevent her from running scheduled trips in 2017. Look for all 3 up by 2021. Why is 3985 down well alot of that has to do with the quality of her last overhaul according to my contact at the shop. When they started to tear her down for an inspection they found 2 parts of the boiler that had been patched replaced by non certifed materials. Non boiler grade steel was being used on a pressure vessel. So until all non certified parts are removed and replaced on her she is parked. This is what he told me and I trust him.
Now this may rustle a few feathers around here as the person that is going to be involved is their Sainted Steve Lee that ran the Steam Program at the UP. More and more has come out in the last few years from people that worked with him that he was hanging paper on the FRA compliance on both 3985 and 844.
I never met Mr. Lee, but all I know is that he kept 844 galloping at 75 per and had 3985 pull a mile and a half of doublestacks on the advertised during a time when he had to make things work with what he had. He brought 3985 back, and without him at the helm, I doubt if we would have 3985 today. So I am glad he was at the helm during that time.
Fast forward to today. We need to applaud UP for continuing to put funds toward bringing back their Big Three and making sure that they are better than new. They are ensuring that the Last Of The Giants soldier on, that the thunder continues to roll, and the spirit of the men and women who built this great country is forever remembered.
In my book, the work done through the decades by all the UP Steam Crew members during their time keeping the torch lit is a noble endeavor indeed.
- 1, couldn’t say it better.
When things are done on the cheap - they are done so for a reason - the money to do it RIGHT doesn’t exist; so it is either done on the cheap or not at all.
He didn’t bring the 3985 back.
People like John Boehner, Tim Grotheer, Lynn Nystrom, Craig Ringgenberg, Don Ringstad, Bob Krieger, Bill Haley, Bob Fryml, “Swede” Nath, and other members of the 3985 Committee composed of Union Pacific retirees and employee volunteers brought her back to life with permission of brass like President Kenefick.
Steve Lee was a road foreman and the only involvement I’ve ever heard of with the 3985 during the restoration days was when he was involved in her break-in runs. He didn’t become the operating officer of the Heritage Program until 1982, followed by becoming the road foreman of the whole shebang in 1988.
The 3985’s trip back to life started in October 1978 with the initial inspiration and concluded with the handover to the UP steam program in March 1981, with the 3985 Committee ceasing to be responsible for the now restored engine as per their agreement with Union Pacific.
In fact if he hadn’t been so deadset against the very thought of an operational Big Boy, the 4023 in Cheyenne might’ve been running years ago. Instead despite 15 years of indoor storage after her running days had ended, she’s now just about the one in the worst condition with the possible exception of Steamtown’s example.
She didn’t have a savior like the 3985 did with John Boehner before she deteroriated from outdoor display in Wyoming. Not saying that it would’ve been possible 20-25 years ago and that Steve Lee is at fault for her current condition, but I bet if he had been in control before the 3985 restoration, that one also would’ve never happened and she too would only be good for a static display piece after over 40 years of Wyoming weather.
While likely for the best, he seemed to champion keeping what they had safe and in good condition, while making the steam program relevant. That’s something to appreciate and quite likely why the program still exists.
Thank you for adding historical content and reinforcing the fact that for over six decades now, many, many people have had a hand in keeping fire in the firebox on the UP. Heroes all.
And I assume this is verifiable through records and hard copy? These are serious accusations and should not be just BS and rumors passed down through the rotating shop crew since Mr. Lee left.
I also see no reason for this to be spewed on a public forum. Given the questionable things that have gone on since 2011, I would think that the UP would take offense at this post.
I miss 3985. Haven’t seen it since it visited St Paul back in 2008. Unfortunate that it’s on hiatus, but 4014 will be nice to see running…assuming it visits the Twin Cities
Since then, the new depot in that area began hosting an annual railroad event. We here in the midwest would love to see the steam return!
I’m going to presume that with the number of times the UP has backed up the current steam program leadership(Mr. Dickens), I highly doubt they’d want to open up the can of worms from the previous group?
[soapbox] When a Thread takes a turn toward ad hominum attacks, it seems to diminish all of us. It seems that the whole social structure is turned upside down, not only politically, but socially, as well.
I think it is safe to say, that there are more of us on this Forum who have enjoyed the UP’s Steam Program and its Heritage Locomotive acknowledgement Programs than have not. So lets not look that proverbial ‘gift horse’ in its mouth.
As to Mr. Steve Lee, It is completely unfair to attack him or any decisions made under his management. Particularly, from the stand point of outsiders making judgements based on supposition or inuendo; in light of not knowing any of
Amen!!! If you take the steam program in its totality, since it’s inception in the late 50’s to today with the 844, 4014 and the 3985, and the heritage diesels what is their to complain about. Maybe mistake were made maybe not. It’s not easy. So let’s be thankful for what we got and enjoy the ride. Things are about to get real interesting.
Ditto! [:D]
UP 5511 2-10-2,
I think this un-appreciated historical gem could lead the UP steam program in a whole new direction. Lets think out of the box -
about - UP HOBO SPECIALS -
I am talking about a 1930’s drag freight train experience adapted to steam train fans - riding passenger oriented period freight cars - for shorter trips - in order that they can dress up as vagrants and ride the boxcars - gondolas - I’m talking maroon paint - orchre yellow and black freight cars of the old tradition - etc! - at low low speed.
UP of course would have to supply suitable Woodie Guthrie musicians strumming to the tunes of “Pastures of Plenty” - “This Land is Your Land” - “Worried Man Blues” and “Hard Travilin.”
I would expect such UP HOBO fantrips to operate at a max of 20 mph in drag freight tradition - and serve “mulligan stew” and coffee for sale in something like the caboose."
Of course such a train ride experience would feature not only the rods down drag freight experience - but offer excellent front and rear historical performance with caboose and steam engine!
I mean - UP could offer up such local senic wonders as the famed main line ride through the historic “Red Butes” of the Sweetwater River trip - famed through history but lost to the modern highway traveler. Or travel past the famed Green River site the the historic fir trading rendevous of mountain men of the 1830’s such as the Lost Horse valley. Such things that can be appreciated slowly.
Or what about the slow ride through the famous Snake River Valley sites of Idaho - to see the famed “big horn sheep” mountain or equally famous “oil springs” and mountain ranges leading to the Tetons.
Or ride the vast wheat covered prairies of the endless skies to small town Nebraska.
I worked with Mr. Lee very extensively during my years at UP, although not in the steam shop (given my mechanical skills, I would have been quite useless there). I have nothing but the highest respect for him. He was also well regarded by the rest of the steam loco fraternity, and was an important figure in the FRA steam rule revisions. I have no reason to believe he was “hanging paper on FRA compliance” (and, if I had any reason to bel
Better than it was, at least.
A running #844 silenced the bulk of the nonsense.
I called my friend last night for an update on 4014 they are hoping for first steam up late 2018. His only complaint is the 60 hour weeks he is running until all 3 are back in Steam per Headquarters orders. 5 12 hour shifts a week until all are running was the word given this week. He is like yeah the OT will be nice however I would like to see my kids sometime in the summer. Trust me UP is not happy with what was uncovered however they are also grateful for Steve Lee’s years of dedication to the Steam and Heritage Program. As for the future of the Program a few years ago UP put it into the Charter of the company that they will always have a top level heritage program supported by the sales of their Models and memoribilla sold worldwide. So all those Model trains and such we buy with UP and their merged partners on them support keeping the 844 and her friends alive.
“Hobo Specials?” I don’t know Doctor D, that sounds about as workable as a Civil War re-enactment with live ammo.
I mean really! A complete hobo experience would involve having railroad “bulls” beating the hell out of passengers found riding in the boxcars! Ow!
I assume your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek!