I have read references to the UP’s streamlined steam as looking like an upside down bathtub – the old fashioned kind with claw feet that you sometimes see buried standing up in someone’s yard and used as a religious shrine.
Dave Nelson
Somehow I missed this thread, probably while I was gone.
Oh, yes, the slugs. It is interesting how similar the UP engines are to the NYC Mercury locomotive.
I found a couple pictures on the internet, they aren’t mine:
NW
Generally, no. Most streamliners of the 1930’s used new lightweight cars and diesel locomotives - both new technology at the time. However, railroads at that time often only bought a few passenger diesels to serve the train it was streamlining, so would have to use steam to “pinch hit” if one of the diesels went down for repair (which was fairly common with early diesels). Some chose to streamline a few steam engines so if a diesel went down, the steam engine would blend in better with the consist than a regular black engine would.
A few railroads did choose to run new streamlined cars with steam engines, like the Milwaukee Road’s Hiawatha (which used new 4-4-2 and later 4-6-4 streamlined engines) or New York Central’s 1938 20th Century Limited or 1941 Empire State Express, which added streamlining to existing NYC Hudsons.
When the Southern inaugurated the Tennessean, the train was powered by Alco diesels between Bristol and Memphis, and the streamstyled Pacific between Washington and Monroe, which made a round trip each day.
When it became possible to use diesel power between Washington and Monroe, the first assignment had an EMD taking the Birmingham Special one way and the Pelican the other way.
Those slugs look too boxy for streamlined steam! [(-D]
UP should have taken lessons from the Pennsy on how to streamline a locomotive. Of course, the Pennsy couldn’t get what was under the best streamlining to work right, so perhaps a slug is better than a dud.[:P]
I’d never heard of any UP streamlined locomotives. Really neat thread!
S&S
Rather reminds me of a cartoon I saw many moons ago. Inverted bathtub shroud being lifted off, revealing a slide-valve 4-4-0 with truncated diamond stack…
Of all the attempts to streamline steam locomotives, only the N&W got it right - mainly by admitting that there was a circular cross-section boiler under the fancywork. (the Dreyfus Hudsons always reminded me of helmets on dead Roman legionaries…)
Chuck
Or perhaps locomotives like some of these?
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The streamlining applied to the ‘real’ Commodore Vanderbilt locomotive was supposed to be quite functional for improving performance. I’m not very sure the same could be said about this slightly later version:
although, as you can see, the streamlining was perfectly effective in its intended role!
A bathtub upside down running back end first with a steam locomotive under it still looks like a bathtub. Making the boiler and smoke box into the business end of 30.06 rifle cartridge was a was a more pleasing esthetic.
I agree about the N&W J - got it right. Also the similarly done New Haven I-5. And except for colors the SP Daylights. But the Southern’s one streamlined PS-4 wasn’t bad either, a lot better than the more famous NYC J-3’s in my opinion or the one or two PRR K-4. The T-1 was a lot better, but still not up to the three I really like. The only problem for me with the Southern’s streamlined PS-4 was that the unstreamlined PS-4 was the best looking Pacific for me anywhere!
Another consideration for streamlining is not looks but maintenance ease.
Rule #1 for practical streamlining: Thou Shalt not Cover the Valve Gear!!!
What are the thoughts on the C&O Yellow Bellies?
A 1st grader I know described them as similar to Despicable Me’s Minions.
No Disney stole the idea from the C&O.
A C&O “Yellow Belly” or “Big Banana” , if you will, is a lot more impressive in person than it is in any photograph. There’s one at the B&O Museum in Baltimore, which is well worth a visit if you’re in the area.
The only “Big Banana” that I ever ran into was a 727 for Hughes Air West.
What N&W did to their heavy USRA 4-8-2s proved that ‘aftermarket’ shrouding could work. Like the Js, their design owed a lot to cal .45 ACP ball ammo - the stuff used in a Model 1911. 30/06 ammo was WAY too pointy!
For me, the main spotting feature on the 4-8-2 was its sidearm - the fully shrouded Worthington BL feedwater heater on the fireman’s side. Looked like the holster for that Model 1911…
Chuck (sometimes target shooter)
I KNEW there was something familiar about the Class J’s nose! I just couldn’t put my finger on it, shame on me, a 1911A1 owner as well. Darn.
Speaking of bullets, did you know Werner von Braun modeled the exterior of the V2 rocket on the shape of the 8mm Mauser bullet? Hey, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery as they say.
You mentioned colors, and that seems to be an important element here.
If the SR Ps4 were to be painted black, and placed beside an Erie modernized K-5a (also black), I think I’d prefer the Erie engine. But paint made all the difference. As for streamlining, my personal favorite is the N&W J, which seems to place me in the majority. A close second would be N&W’s streamlined Mountains, followed by B&O’s P-7d. In my opinion, everything else is an also-ran. This is guaranteed to remove me from every NYC, NH, and SP fan’s Christmas card list. But of course, they’re entitled to their opinions too.
That is, daveklepper mentioned colors.
So, the reason you don’t particularly like the NH I-5 is because it is black with only restrained silver lettering and striping? I understand, but I think its overall form is so fine that it compensates for the lack of imaginative painging as best exampled by the J, the shrouded N&W Moutains, the CP examples, and your B&O example. I like the B&O also, and consider it the equal of the one Southern example which seems similar to me. I still rank the Daylight (and the streamlined N&W Mountains) and the I-5 as second only to the J.
One thing I realized is that the Century’s Dryfuss Hudsons seem to be feminized. I cannot explain why, and this bothers me. I prefer my J3a’s unstreamlined. The Empire State version is a bit better but only a bit.
And I have not figured out why I prefer the T to either the Loewy K-4 or hiasS-1.
The Dreyfuss Hudsons “feminized”? That’s interesting, they remind me of the spaceships in the “Flash Gordon” and “Buck Rogers” serials from the 1930’s.
The only steam streamliners I don’t care for are the ones with the “upside-down bathtub” look, but I’m not alone in that. The “bathtubbers” seem to be just a quick-and-dirty job as opposed to a well thought out design.
No argument with you at all on the B&O streamline jobs or the New Havens I-5, all handsome locomotives.
Wayne