Hi Folks,
I’m sure somewhere in here this topic has been discussed before. I’ve got some really nice soil from my yard that I’d like to use with other scenery materials. I’m pretty sure I read that it would be advised to “bake” it first - to remove any potential organisms, etc.
Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction.
-Greg
I use a LOT of natural scenery materials. I have never baked dirt, nor checked with a magnet, and haven’t had an issue despite the many sources of dirt I’ve used. I do tend to store it in airtight containers (5 gallon buckets, plastic kitty litter containers, etc.) for some time before use however.
Personally, I’d sift it and then microwave it for 60 seconds just to be safe.
Enjoy
Paul
Hazard? Yes, you’re wife’s gonna smack you hard over the head with a frying pan when you wreck her oven!
I’ve seen this discussion several times and NO ONE I can remember has ever actually claimed or described an actual bad effect in reality from NOT baking dirt.
I wonder if freezing it would accomplish the same thing.
Steve S
The sun bakes dirt here in Arizona. I’ve used lots and lots of dirt on both a large HO scale club layout and an HO scale home layout and have never baked it or run a magnet over it.
I mix the finely sifted dirt with plaster, water, white glue, and acrylic paint. Once it dries nothing is going to grow in it, and if there are any particles that may be attracted to a magnet, I don’t think they’re going to be a problem with it firmly glued down.
The only thing I’ve ever ran a magnet over is some very finely powdered copper smelter slag, which does have quite a bit of residual copper and other metals in it.
No. Freezing doesn’t kill microorganisms, just makes them less active for a while. Nor does keeping it in an airtight container. Even an inch of air space on the top would provide months or years of respiration for many creatures (some of them don’t breath oxygen, and can set up a cycle of life inside a sealed container).
And while I’ve never actually heard of anyone who had “bad things happen” from using dirt which has not been baked (or microwaved) and had a magnet run over it, I wouldn’t want to be the first person, either. It’s just good common sense, and it’s not hard, so why skip it?
It’s not hazardous if you take minimal precautions (no more so than roasting your Thanksgiving turkey). 350 degrees (which is too cool to ignite dead leaves or sticks) for 30 minutes will do it, or 10 minutes on high in the microwave.
I baked mine at 400 F. for an hour or so. I used my wife’s best cookie sheets and heaped up the dirt on the two of them to about 10cm deep. I am not sure how baking dirt would ruin an oven but I think next time I’ll put the cookie sheets on the natural gas barbecue outside at 400F. as the smell in the house wasn’t exactly Prime Rib. Even with the fan on.[(-D]
After it cooled I sifted it all through about four or five different sized kitchen strainers and have it all sorted into different coffee cans waiting to be used. The cookie sheets just washed off and the oven stayed clean as dirt doesn’t seem to splatter. My wife just rolled her eyes at me as I returned the strainers and cookie sheets to their appropriate spots.
I was looking for that mucky Alberta foot hills, cattle range, spring thaw look. I am happy with how it has gone so far. Below is real dirt and static grass.
Brent[C):-)]
Hi,
Personally, while I would use “real” sand and rocks, I would hesitate to use soil on the layout. But, it is done by others and with varying degrees of success. I actually tried it years ago, but it just didn’t look right.
Anyway, a good practice to get it layout ready is to:
Screen the soil first to remove debris. Remember, a shovel full or so will likely be all you need.
Run a fairly strong magnet through the screened soil. You would be surprised at the ferrous material in the ground, which can attach itself to your locos and cars and has a definite damage potential.
Spread it thinly on a baking (cookie) sheet and bake for about an hour at 250 degrees F. This will kill anything in the soil, and take out all the moisture as well.
Let it cool, and then screen it again - and “apply as needed”.
Oh, as a side note… in my travels around the US I have seen soil colors ranging from jet black to yellows to reds to grays and countless combinations. It would be a good idea to get the soil (w/o getting arrested) from the area you are modeling…
Rob
I agree with you as I used many pounds (at times I would have thought it was Tons) of sand/dirt from the side of the roads around here for years -
both on my home layout and my local club layout - with never a problem!
And both of these layouts are located in basements with humidity levels much higher that what I would like!
This is another one of those Model Railroad Urban Myths - that ONE person MIGHT have had a problem and NOW - EVERYONE IS HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM ! ( I love this ME-TOO attitude ).
If you are so worried about this so called problem - use PLAY SAND - it is sanitized for you and already sifted and bagged.
I am using it now on my current layout as I moved and the local roads around here do not have the same levels of sand/dirt I used in the past.
It is just easier to go to the Big Box Stores and buy a bag for $5.00 or so and use it straight out of the bag - no Cooking - no Magnets - no Sifting.
And it can be tinted with any latex type of paint - if you really have to - I just cover everything with ground foam and it looks great!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Most of my buddies in the hobby and myself have used real dirt and rocks for years without baking and magnets. No problems with bugs, microbes, iron in motors etc…The trick is to glue it down.
The biggest problem for me is that the color darkens considerably when glue is added. I use dry grey pigments and fine grey sifted dirt to color adjust the dirt to get the proper look when I glue it down.
One more trick is to sand the dirt after the glue has dried. Brings up a nice dusty look.
Here is a pic. of natural dirt in use:
Guy
I have been using sand from a old two-track road and have never baked it at all. I will sift out the organic debris and then into carying grades but other than that, I don’t do anything to it. The key for me is to sift it onto wet paint or glue it down then vacuum up everything that isn’t stuck down before I run any trains around it.
If you do decide to “cook” the dirt, an oven is more sure than a microwave. For example, if you were to microwave dry sand it would probably not heat up at all. Microwaves generally need water or a conductor to heat; its generally the water in foods that heats. On the other hand, conductive metals in your dirt can cause effects ranging from nothing at all up to causing a fire or destroying the microwave.
While germs probably have some moisture in them and so can be cooked, I’m not sure about viruses.
In any event, heating the soil to 350 degrees F in an oven will pretty much kill plant seeds, molds, fungi, germs, bugs, etc.
Alan
I think we are all forgetting the most important thing here about cooking or baking dirt in an oven or microwave. Discussing it with the woman of the house first. Especially if she is the OP’s wife or mother. I know my wife would not want/allow me to cook dirt in our microwave or oven, even if I did ask or discuss it with her.
OP you may want to discuss this with the woman of the house before you go forward with this idea. Otherwise you may find yourself in trouble when she finds out. And believe me she WILL find out.
Another thing is if the dirt is from your yard there could be tetanus bacteria in it. Tetanus is from animal feces and lives in the ground. It is more common on farms and rural areas. You cannot get tetnau from a rusty nail unless an animal crapped on it, it was stuck in the ground and exposed to the bacteria first. Tetnau can occur from animal feces in cities nad towns as well. Mainly those with dogs and outdoor cats.
Hi again,
Baking your dirt (1 hr at 250F) just makes good sense. If there is any dangerous micro-organisms in there, they will be toast. And, the moisture will be removed from the dirt, making it easier to manage.
I have used a cookie sheet - with a tin foil base (to appease the other half), and it works like a charm. Remember, you are going to need a relatively small amount and its just not that big of a deal.
I’ve never had a problem using real dirt, sifted of course to remove out-of-scale particles. I’ve developed a technique that works well for me, at least…I use an old modeling paint brush, which I dip into a 50/50 white glue/water mix. I then dip the brush into my container of loose soil, and “paint” the layout surface. I repeat as necessary. This works especially well when adding soil to slopes…for a runoff erosion effect, just add more of the glue/water mix. When dry, the soil looks loose but is completely bonded to the homasote, foam, plywood or whatever.
Since I model Oklahoma railroading, but live in Kansas City, I have to make “dirt” runs down home to Okie land every so often. I use the fine red dirt. My wife, a true KC woman, gets out along oil lease roads when we go down home, and collects coffe cans of that fine red dirt while I watch for the fuzz and those big fuzzy spiders that my wife doesn’t know about. We bring it back to KC, I run a magnet, sift it, bake it in the oven and store it in containers. Most visitors recognize it as Oklahoma when they come into the room and visit for the first time.
Have been doing it for over 20 years, no adverse effects.
Bob
True enough.
Or you can bypass the issue. Do what I did - buy a cheap toaster oven for modelling use. There are lots of uses for a small amount of managed heat in modelling. And your RR doesn’t end up smelling of garlic and oregano [:D]
Alan
I had a problem using real dirt in a diorama. Unwanted things started growing including some sort of mold looking stuff.
Since then I take a 5 gallon bucket fill it about half way with dirt. I fill it with water and a couple drops of dawn. Anything that isn’t dirt floats and can be skimmed off the top. I stir it with a board until nothing else floats. Then I let it settle for a couple hours and pour off the water. I take a pie plate and fill it with wet dirt. Kinda looks like a big mud pie. I use an old microwave and cook it until all the water is gone. What I’m left with is clean dry dirt. After that I use different screens and sift it. That way I have a couple containers with unsifted, large, medium, small, fine and super fine dirt.
I’ve gotten a bit of negative criticism for doing all this to dirt. I’ve also been told it’s completely unnecessary. Since I’ve been doing this I haven’t had any problems with “stuff” growing in my dioramas. I’ve also noticed that it takes glue better when its cleaned dirt vs. raw dirt.
