I am “reading” Michael C. Kelly’s excellent Wabash in Color, V2.
There are a series of photos taken near Delmar Station, which is west of Union Station. Wabash ran all it’s passenger trains west, even the Chicago and Detroit bound trains to Delmar then back east (on the TRRA?) to cross at Merchants Bridge before heading towards Decatur.
Was this a operations decision or marketing decision? The book indicates the great location of Delmar for all Wabash trains, thus passengers avoided Union Station. The Official Guide map for TRRA shows a route from Union Station which turned east from US then paralleled the Mississippi River to Merchants Bridge. So, it appears there were two such routes available, both involving TRRA.
The book has a fascinating series of photos with Banner Blue and the City of St. Louis. Looking at the 1994 Official Guide, one could do quite well on the Wabash line near Delmar in late afternoon:
345pm Banner Blue Northbound
345pm Banner Blue Southbound
400pm City of St. Louis Westbound
That is a very productive 15 minutes of train watching.
Yes, there was quite a bit of traffic at the Delmar station. I missed being able to take that route by one day; in the spring of 1989, I rode the Blue Bird to Chicago, and it left fifteen (as I recall) minutes later than the schedule I had because it went directly over to the river and then north to the Merchants Bridge. The day before it had gone around St. Louis. Since the night trains to Chicago and Kansas City left about midnight, there were setout sleepers that Delmar patrons could board at a decent time (Unlike going north from Sacramento now), and at one time, there were two sleepers for Chicago from Delmar and only one from Union Station.
great book!! I thoroughly enjoyed volumes 1 and 2.
My vote is that it was a “marketing” decision, Delmar station was built on a roadway bridge, was it not? with the key point being the anticipated upscale clientelle could easily disembark from their chauffered limos and get directly into the passenger station…less congestion to deal with, in a better neighborhood, etc
Sorry to distract your more professional topic with personal accounts. But, this thread gives me the worm and fuzzies.
My father and I grew up in Mt. Olive, on the Illinois Central, Wabash and Litchfield and Madison (the Illinois Terminal went through too, but that was before his time. Anyway, although my Dad reminises plenty about the Green Diamond and the IC switch outside of town, the Wabash passenger trains with their F units seems always to be the thing he talks about most.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard a story about the banner blue.
Gabe, the next time you are up this way you can take the Wabash books back ( I have both V1 and V2). The estate sale this spring has really increased my library.
Back in 1966 our family travelled from Olney, Il to Pueblo, Co for a funeral. We took train #1, which by that time was now the George Washington from Olney to St. Louis, then boarded the “City of St. Louis” for a late afternoon departure. The Wabash was gone by then (Norfolk Western) but the routing was Wabash to Kansas City and then UP to Denver. We dropped down to Pueblo on the Rio Grande.
According to the Official Guide, we had about 35 minutes in Kansas City. I recall heading for the timetable rack and picking up one of everything…that is until my dad, in no uncertain terms told me I could keep one and only one timetable. Possibly the cruelest thing he ever did to me. That speaks volumes of my father and my obvious affection for trains at the early age.
On the return trip we boarded the Chief at La Junta and transferred to the MoPac for an 1130pm overnight trip to St. Louis (it appears to have been train 18, which was obviously a mail train). The arrival in St. Louis shows at 713am. I recall a significant layover before boarding the B&O train for home. The OG lists us leaving at 945am with arrival at 1248pm. All of these times might be slightly different as I am using an earlier OG.
Perhaps I have hijacked my own thread with a personal story which very slightly relates to the Wabash, but so be it. It was the last pre-Amtrak train ride taken…and what a trip it was. How about that routing…B&O, NW, UP, DRG&W, ATSF, MoPac, B&O.
Now, back to the Wabash, sort of. Decatur, Il has always intrigued my as a railroad town. The big yard, Wabic Tower, and the depot all survived well into this cent
The prime asset for Wabash was the fact that its main line avoided both Chicago and St. Louis. A fair amount of the ex-WAB lines to Chicago from Decatur and Ohio have been taken up, mostly for lack of local traffic. Chicago-Decatur trains operate on trackage rights over CN between Chicago and Gibson City and and trains from the east were re-routed onto the ex-NKP main shortly after the merger in 1964.
An intriguing Wabash line, at least to me was the Chicago - Toledo line. It sort of meandered thru northern Indiana and managed to avoid major markets once it cleared Gary.
The Detroit - KC line has to be a feather in NS’s cap.
Could NS run the Triple Crown to Texas without that line? I couldnt see them running that train thru St. Louis, without serious operational delays.
The Chicago - Toledo line was primarily built as a passenger line to get patrons to the Chicago world’s fair…was the shortest route between Detroit and Chitown.
Another good book is “Follow the Flag” http://www.amazon.com/Follow-Flag-History-Railroad-Railroads/dp/0875803288 which reveals N&W really didn’t want the wabby, but took it because it knew that PRR was going to have to get rid of it as a condition towards it’s plans to merge with NYC, and N&W anticipated that PRR would be more inclined to accept an N&W/NKP merger if N&W did PRR a favor by taking the wabby off it’s hands.
I often wonder how the Wabby’s fortunes might have been different IF their ill fated venture into Pittsburgh had been a success
Surely, you mean 1969. Don’t think you could ride the Blue Bird 20 years later.
The Wabash across northern Indiana always fascinated me because it was built relatively late and then didn’t last that long. It was never really upgraded and went into Chicago proper on trackage rights, two factors that conspired against it. Had it lasted until the Conrail split, I would think that would have been the final blow but it didn’t even make it until then.
Yes, thanks for catching that year error. i KNOW I pressed the “6;” the keyboard must have misunderstood (I always blame the keyboard when I can). In 1989, I was not traveling as much as I was before I married, in 1972, but my wife and I were able to take a one month trip across the U. S. A. and back (she also loves to travel by train), and , of course, it was utterly impossible to take any Wabash train, much less the Blue Bird, by then.
As to the route across northern Indiana, I expect that its deficiencies led to cooperation with the PRR in instituting through service Chicago-Detroit that used the Wabash east of Fort Wayne.
NOT AFTER 1964! Remember in that year the Norfolk & Western merged the Nickel Plate and Wabash. At the same time, the Pennsylvania had to sever their relationships with both the N&W and the Wabash (all this was preparitory to the coming Penn-Central merger).
The N&W abandoned or sold the portion of the Detroit-Chicago line west of Montpelier, OH. I’m guessing this happened sometime in the 1970s.
I believe it was in the mid 80’s the Wabash line across northern Indiana was abandoned. I recall going to a lake cottage in the early 80’s near Wolcottville and the line ran about 1/2 mile from the cottage. Never saw a train on the line, but I did hear one.
There was an interesting crossing at Crocker, Indiana, just west of Chesterton where the Wabash line crossed the EJE line running from Griffith to Chesterton. Both lines were abandoned in the 80’s. I really didnt pay any attention to either lines as there was bigger fish to fry with the B&O mainline, Conrail, South Shore, etc. What a mistake.
I believe the through freight traffic was removed from the line in the winter of 1974-75 and rerouted via Fort Wayne and west across the former NKP. A connection track was built in the northwest corner of the diamond at NE (New Haven, IN) from the former Wabash to the former NKP to handle this traffic.
Route abandonments happened much later, as someone noted, in the mid-eighties. Of course, pieces of the line exist, scarcely, primarily east of Wolcottville, IN, to Montpelier, OH.
Convicted one is right, the Delmar Station was on a roadway and Wabash passenger trains were routed in that manner to pick up passengers in what was the most high class part of St. Louis at the time it was built. In fact, they had a station at the World’s Fair grounds in 1904 before Delmar Station was built. Later the area went down but is now making quite a comeback. Delmar Station is now a Metrolink station.
When I was stationed at Fort Riley Kansas in the summer of 1955, I used to take the UP to Kansas City Union Station and transfer to a Wabash train which had no name. It left at midnight and took about six hours to get across the state. That gave me a good sleep in the coach. I would get off at Delmar Station and ride home on the streetcar. Going back, I would take UP’s City of Los Angeles out of Union Station. It was pulled to Kansas City by Wabash power and then the rest of the way by the UP. We used to call it the party train, because there were a lot of young ladies going to LA for vacation and a lot of servicemen going back to their various bases. What a great summer.
You have a good memory on that midnight train to St. Louis. It was unnamed in the OG timetable and left at 1159pm, arriving at 735am. Perhaps you were sleeping and didnt realize it, but at Moberly the cars from train 14 from Des Moines were combined. Train #18 was given 22 minutes in Moberly to combine the two trains. Train #18 showed 26 stops between KC and StL, many of which were flag stops.
Interestingly, the Wabash at that time had TWO #18 trains…the aforementioned KC - St.L train and also a Chicago - StL train. The Chicago - St. Louis train left St. Louis at 1150pm arriving in Chicago at 740 am. and had a number of sleeping cars, which were available at 930pm.
More interestingly, the equipment section of the OG shows the KC- StL #18 named as Midnight Limited. It carried two sleepers - one - 12section and 2 double bedroom and one - 8 section, 5 double bedroom.
Now, why would Wabash have two trains numbered #18? (and also #17).
Even more interesting, the Wabash at that time, in addition to running the Des Moines trains, also ran an Omaha train, which combined with the #18 at Moberly. This train joined the KC - StL mainline at Brunswick and ran ahead of the #18 into Moberly. The train number for the Omaha train, as well as the Des Moines train was #14.
Dont think I have ever seen a railroad have the same train numbers for separate trains. Can anyone explain this?
It may be that there were, originally, two separate railroads, and the merged company saw no reason to change the numbers of the trains, especially since at least two different divisions would be involved.
I have ridden, on the Southern, Charlotte Division #11 and Birmingham Division #11–and there was no connection between the two. I do not remember, for certain, if Charlotte Division #'s 11 & 12 ever were extended below Greenville. (Of course, the Charlotte Division was originally part of one railroad and the Birmingham Division was part of the Georgia Pacific, a different railroad). I also rode #'s 35 & 36 between Charlotte and Atlanta, and Memphis Division #'s 35 & 36 between Chattanooga and Memphis (this latter line was the Charleston and Memphis, originally).
Thanks for the validation, MP173. You’re right, I did sleep through and that was the beauty of it. I would leave the Post early Friday night and be home Saturday morning. Then I would catch the City of Los Angeles at 5PM Sunday, (6PM daylight time) and party all the way back. I had two days at home and two nights of parties, including Saturday, all summer.
And the round trip military fare was $16.00.
At that time I wasn’t paying too much attention to train numbers.
I just finished the trip from Kansas City/St. Louis to Chicago and points east in Wabash in Color, V2.
Great book. I also have V1 and have looked it over, it seems to be more centered on the Michigan and Ohio operations.
V2 really centered on Decatur with nice coverage of St. Louis and some really great shots of Central Illinois. The photos of the mixed train at New Paris, In were really special.
Wabash was really an interesting railroad, with domeliners from St. Louis to Chicago and mixed freights on several lines. Cant forget the Columbia - Centralia, Mo operation either.
One could say Wabash was second fiddle on almost all of it’s routes…KC - StL (Mopac had the superior route), St. Louis - Chicago (perhaps Wabash had the best route, but IC and GMO were also strong), Chicago - Toledo (no comparison to NYC), The one ace they held was Kansas City - Detroit and with Decatur as the nexus of operations for lines to St. Louis and Chicago that was quite a card to be holding.
I never saw the Wabash in it’s day, being 9 years old at the time of the merger, but I did spend a great day at Tolono, Il in 1975, catching all of the IC and NW action. Perhaps 11 years later there was still just a bit of Wabash spirit left.
With the merger of Wabash and NKP in 1964, one has to conclude that NW was certainly a well positioned railroad.
Recently I have read the “in Color” books on Chicago and Eastern Illinois, Monon, and Wabash. Upcoming books include the GTW and Erie Lackawanna (West End). These railroads all had Dearborn Station, Chicago in common. What a great backdrop for passenger trains.
