I think you hit on a valid point here. There could always be a mischievious, or even malevolent motive driving the engineer’s tooting, giving rise to the cities with the most vocal objections.
One other thought that occurs to me…with the rapid push for new hires by the railroads these last several years, there are going to be a lot of n00bs in the engineer’s seat, to whom the novelty might not yet have worn off. Just like big kids playing choo choo.
Hey, if a guy has worked 12/8 around the clock for weeks on end, it might be about the only fun he gets.
Holy Foamer, Railfan! All I can say is WOW! (anachronym for weely odd words) (and sentence structure-anachronym not implied)
But I love your passion and you did get your point across. Does railfan619 have a legitimate point here that it is under the engineers discretion to use the horn as needed? Even in a restricted area? Are there grey areas as suggested like people track-side that may or m
Is there some sound bite or? to help comprehend this description…? coming from a person who knows nothing about trains. I am intrigued by all the passings, screeching, tooting,and sorts of cars that pass by out side my window all day long.
I remember when the SOO took over the MN&S in the early 1980’2 - the railroad line that ran in front of my house. The change from Hancock air whistles with their steam whistle sound to the single chime BLAT airhorns on the GP’s was quite a contrast.
The railroads put the horns they want on their engines, but most likely for safety / insurance reasons would err on the side of being too loud rather than too soft.
The federal government doesn’t regulate horn volume, blowing differently at night during the day, etc. I forget where I came across it, but there was I think an FRA ruling saying communities could set up ‘quiet zones’ if they wanted…basically, the gov’t went out of their way to make the point that they didn’t control it, so the cities didn’t need their permission to do it.
One thing I’ve learned working for the government is, a lot of people think there has to be a law to let you do something; more often, you can do something because there’s no law or regulation saying you CAN’T do it.
Actually, the FRA does regulate horn volume: “The maximum volume level for the train horn is 110 decibels which is a new requirement. The minimum sound level remains 96 decibels.” If there’s an incident where the sounding of the horn is at question, you can bet that level will be checked.
While the FRA doesn’t regulate exactly how the horn will be sounded, it must be sounded within established parameters, most specifically that it must begin 15-20 seconds before arriving at the crossing, in the prescribed manner (_ _ . _). About the only latitude an engineer has is how long each blast is.
Also from the FRA website:
"Under the Train Horn Rule (49 CFR Part 222), locomotive engineers must begin to sound train horns at least 15 seconds, and no more than 20 seconds, in advance of all public grade crossings.
If a train is traveling faster than 60 mph, engineers will not sound the horn until it is within ¼ mile of the crossing, even if the advance warning is less than 15 seconds.
West Allis had two pre-rule no-horn quiet zones on UP. That being said, it would appears that West Allis’ finer citizenry ought to be held accountable for their actions that forced the proper reaction by the locomotive engineer. There are several QZ’s up for removal because of the failure of the locals to keep up their part of the bargain. (pleading budget woes don’t cut it)
As for the local gendarmes, their police authority ends at the R/W line most of the time. (our friend the federal pre-emption again, for very good reason.)
Because the rule book says it will be so. The sequence changed from two longs and two shorts to the present two longs, one short and then one longer sound held until the crossing is completely occupied around the 1920s. No reason it couldn’t be changed again, but also no reason it needs to be changed.
Railroad managers and FRA inspectors do enforce the proper soundings of the horn at crossings.
Sounds like West Allis. I would again repeat what others have said the only time I have seen this behavior by Locomotive Engineers in Wisconsin is imminent impact with a person illegally on the right of way or with folks going around the down railroad gates.
Hate to get gruesome but there have been a lot of suicides in SE Wisconsin by folks deliberately walking in front of trains or standing in front of trains at wierd hours of the morning and night…and I would not doubt if this was someone again on the right of way…it is around the Holidays which is prime season for suicide attempts.
Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen’s Magazine, Volume 86 (1929)
The Whistle and the Highway Crossing
By J.A. Carney, Department of Safety, Chicago, Burlington and Quincy R.R. Co., Chicago
(A talk given before the National Safety Congress, New York City)
In the horse and buggy days, the whistling sign for road crossings was located from 990 to 1,320 feet from the highway grade crossing and the whistle signal was two long and two short blasts sounded near the whistle sign. The movement of the vehicle was seldom over eight miles an hour and usually much less. The vehicle was usually open and the whistle could easily be heard. The temperament of the horse was in many cases a factor in preventing a crossing accident.
With the introduction of the automobile, the speed of the vehicle approaching the grade crossing was increased to twenty-five miles or more per hour. The vehicle was closed and the whistle could not be heard easily. The result was that when the whistle sounded, the engine was nine hundred or more feet from the cros
Thank you, Mike, for that explanation of why the last blast is to be extended until the crossing is reached. I had felt that it is far better, for the safety of the public, to hold the last blast.
I wonder what empirical experiment could have been conducted to show whether it is better to hold the last blast or to not hold it.
I have mentioned this before, in a least one post on another thread of my experience in blowing a horn when traveling at 90 mph–when going through some towns in north Mississippi, I had to make the last blast for one crossing to be the first blast for the next crossing–and the engineer did not correct me.
Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen’s Magazine, Volume 86 (1929)
The Whistle and the Highway Crossing
By J.A. Carney, Department of Safety, Chicago, Burlington and Quincy R.R. Co., Chicago
(A talk given before the National Safety Congress, New York City)
In the horse and buggy days, the whistling sign for road crossings was located from 990 to 1,320 feet from the highway grade crossing and the whistle signal was two long and two short blasts sounded near the whistle sign. The movement of the vehicle was seldom over eight miles an hour and usually much less. The vehicle was usually open and the whistle could easily be heard. The temperament of the horse was in many cases a factor in preventing a crossing accident.
With the introduction of the automobile, the speed of the vehicle approaching the grade crossing was increased to twenty-five miles or more per hour. The vehicle was closed and the whistle could not be heard easily. The result was that when the whistle sounded, the engine was nine hund
Quoting Schlimm: “Basing present practice on those of 86 years ago when very few crossings had gates (in some towns, manned). Brilliant! In other countries, a horn is blown only at ungated crossings, and then often just one application. As I recall, in Morse, long long short long is the letter Q. No coincidence since the Burlington was often called Q.” Even with gates present, people still act in irrational manner.
As to “Q”, remember that the code for “Q” in Morse used in railroad practice is not dash dash dot dash.
I think that the posted story involving the CB&Q (aka the Q) and the change to a whistle signal that resembles the International Morse Q is a coincidence. It wasn’t only the Burlington who changed from the old to the new. Most of the railroads changed in that 1920s time frame. I would guess that then, as now, there were industry committees that recommended basic practices. The consensus was to make the change and the various railroads did as they saw fit.
That would probably be true for all of the usual whistle signals. There used to be quite a few - including calling in flagmen from different directions, not to mention those used when pushers and helpers came into play.
Nowadays, I only worry about four - grade crossing, stop (one blast), go ahead (two), and back up (three).