Been noticing lately that a number of repro parts and loads I need are simply unobtainable, except sometimes at what are, imho, ‘scalper’ prices. These parts and loads tend to have one thing in common- they are things which are commonly found broken or missing entirely.
What I suspect has happened, is that due to their nature of often needing replacement, the supply of past reproductions has dried up because they are always in high demand. The question I have, though, is this- if these parts are still in so much demand, then why is nobody continuing to offer them?
A few examples:
-Autos for the 6414, 6424, and other auto-carrying flatcars
-Roof halves for the 3665, 3666, 3619, and other cars using the ‘Minuteman’ car tooling
-HO Helicopters for the 3619 and 0319 Helicopter launching cars
-Beechcraft planes for the 6801 and 6500 flatcars
My best guess as to why reproductions are not available, is that the most recent reproductions were a byproduct of the Lionel postwar celebration series, and with Lionel seemingly trying to get out of the business of reissuing or supporting older trains, they’re no longer producing parts for these items.
I suppose this is more of a ‘complaining into the void’ post than anything else. I wish I had known I would need to stock up on these things back when they were readily available!
Yes, I could always just only purchase cars that weren’t missing items. But it’s hard to say no to cheap (or even free!) cars in need of some TLC, and I wish I could complete them.
-El
I only have (somewhat) recent experience with one of your examples (the HO helicopters), and I’m not sure what they used to go for, but I seem to recall purchasing one at a train show maybe a year or 2 ago for just around $20.
Looking at eBay listings from one of the more prominent (and as far as I know well respected) parts dealers, it looks like they are still available, but at perhaps a slightly higher cost (maybe closer to $25).
This particular example wouldn’t apply to the situation you suggest for more recent “clones” under the PWC offerings, since Lionel didn’t actually reproduce a PWC 3619 Reconnaissance Car, nor the HO copter launching car (they cataloged the 3619 as part of a PWC set, but then cancelled the set, so it never got made in the modern era).
Out of curiosity, what would you consider to be a good deal for one of these in your past searches?
To me, $25 +whatever shipping is a little steep for the HO copter. O gauge versions can run about that, or less, and the darn things are mostly plastic. In the end, it may just be a matter of “things are expensive when produced at lower volumes”. I know there was a time they could be had for under $20.
Frankly the 6141 autos are the biggest stickler for me. I remember when my former LHS (no longer around) had a pack of autos for $20, which seems like a pretty great deal. Lionel’s site shows an MSRP of $24.95. I’d still gladly buy a pack for $30. But at the moment, doesn’t seem like they’re particularly obtainable. Trainz is selling autos individually at $12 a pop… that adds up fast if you want to re-populate even a single 6414.
Another weird thing, is the Airplane 2-pack. Lionel offered the 6-37855 Airplane Accessory 2-Pack with a pair of planes that closely match the ones for the 6800 and 6500. MSRP shown on their website is $36.99.
Now, more recently Lionel also offered the 2230110 Airplane Accessory 2-Pack, with a pair of airplanes that have colors never offered in the postwar era, but otherwise identical construction. However this set of planes had an MSRP of $13.99. I highly doubt that one of these cost more to produce than the other, I can only assume Lionel felt that collectors would pay more for the “correct” looking load.
This probably isn’t a big deal to someone with plenty to throw around, but my means are a little limited, and it just hasn’t felt worth it to buy some of these items because in some cases, I simply feel like I’ll get more enjoyment for my money by spending it on repairing/completing other items.
I can understand it being hard for independent parties to produce high enough volumes to have low prices for some things. That’s probably the reality of it- a company like Lionel with a network of dealers can afford to make 500,000 units and (at least theoretically) sell them with a lower profit margin. A small company or an individual might have a harder time affording such a high production volume, and will likely need a higher profit margin as they probably have less capital to work with than a large, established company. By combination of these factors, I don’t think an individual or smaller company could easily undercut or meet some of the prices on discontinued repro parts from Lionel.
-El
Interesting on the Airplane 2 pack you mention for $13.99. I honestly probably thought that was a typo when the catalog came out that year, but it must have been real since some dealers were apparently selling for a discount under that very fair MSRP.
Maybe Lionel got some sort of deal with a new manufacturer they were trying out, who knows. Sometimes a vendor might offer a sweet deal to “get their foot in the door” to possible future business. I have absolutely no idea if that’s what really happened, but that one is definitely low for this type of product.
Unfortunately when Lionel offers something like these cars/helos/boats as separate sale these days, you really need to jump on ordering them when they are announced, since there really is no such thing as Lionel carrying any “standard” products in perpetuity anymore, except for track, cables, and maybe some of the electronic components. For most stuff you never know when (or if) they may ever offer it again.
In general, I think the whole situation that makes the repro market necessary/viable still holds. While there is a lot of PW product coming up on the secondary market due to the natural course of life, the larger quantity of available product is not accompanied by any larger quantity of the original loads that were often subject to loss/damage, etc. So It’s not like there are any large number of original HO helicopters coming up for sale (though there may be some increase in the number of rolling stock pieces offered with the loads, they would probably still command a higher price due to being complete and original, since so many offered are not). Probably similar for the autos, but more autos probably have survived than helicopters since it’s harder to damage an auto by crashing it into the ceiling. ;).
I don’t know if anyone has repopped the Marx tractors or autos (I know the military loads were), but originals are kinda pricey, especially, again, if you need more than one.
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The reproduction parts business exploded in the 1990’s along with the boom in postwar collecting in general. Sad to say the simple reality of demographic aging has reduced demand among the boomers who played with these trains when they were newly cataloged. The shrinking demand also influenced many parts dealers when they were deciding whether to retire or not.
Some, like Warren’s and Olsen’s actually manufactured many of the parts they inventoried. Of course original Lionel stock was always an option until Mount Clemens closed. We’re going back to the way things were before the “Baby Boomer Boom” of the 90’s. In the 1960’s there was a “Greatest Generation Boom” when Standard Gauge kids drove the cottage industry for repro prewar tinplate parts and castings.
The next group will be mine, Gen-X. But the jury is still out on wether or not there will be a Gen-X driven demand for MPC parts.
That’s an interesting question, IMO I don’t think the demand will spark any major boom in repro parts made for MPC.
I could be totally off base here, but MPC had lots of Baby Boomers buying it for themselves as well, partly as “investment speculation” based on the high pricing of Post War Lionel. I feel like a lot of the people who had Post War as a kid bought a lot of the MPC when it came out, and not only when they had Gen-X kids (who may or may not have stuck with the hobby interest as they grew up).
I’m basing that partly on my observations of the large amount of MPC product coming up for auction along with all of the Post War. If you can buy 5 rolling stock pieces for $50 or less, or many of the accessories for a fraction of their original cost, how much would people pay for discrete parts when they can just buy a replacement of the item to use as replacements or potential parts donors?
I can see demand for parts that are wear prone or consumable. But I think there are fewer items in the MPC era like the helicopters/autos/boats, etc that prompted El’s original post.
I could see a bit more of businesses buying collections and then disassembling to harvest parts and sell them off maybe. It could be interesting to see what happens.