What is the significance of each locomotive in the "Icons of Canadian Steam," line by Rapido?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I have a question regarding Rapido Trains Incs icons of steam. I would ask them myself but because they only answer brief replies on their social media, so I figured I would ask those on the forums for a more in depth answer.

The lineup according to Rapido comprises the 12 most iconic & notible Canadian built and run steam locomotives. I am not framiler with most of Canadas steam locomotives in the lineup and only know about a few notible ones such as CNR 6060 being the bullet nosed betty class, the CPR royal hudsons, the semi-stream lined CPR hudson, the CPR D10s (which I learned about after the Rapido Royal Hudsons came out, the CPR Jubilee class, the CNR steamlined 4-8-4 Northerns, and thats it.

I understand the project was propsed by one of Rapidos staff members who has passed away. I have to ask why each locomoive is considered iconic, why Rapido is doing them in the order they are doing them in, and why not include the CNR 4-8-4s and the two CPR 4-8-4s, being the K1-a class?

I think the K1-a class is sort of notiable as they are the only 4-8-4s of the Northern wheel arangment to be used by this road, but then I dont know if their former staff member thought of them.

2

The chosen locos are all of large significance to Candian railroading. The Royal Hudson is quite a special loco, the ‘royal’ designation is not arbitrary. The only other model in preproduction now is the D10, which is noteworthy for being one of if not the most numerous single class of steam locos in Canada.

Unless there’s a list of all of the proposed models, which I don’t see on their site, with each one they have a pragraph or two explaining the significance of each class. And clickign the Icons of Candian Steam logo on each loco’s page takes you to a more detailed history of that specific loco.

I’m guessing the order they are doing them is based largley on demand and/or what they feel will appeal to the most modelers. Looking at the history of the D10, that should be a loco that appeals to a great many modelers of Canadian railroads, since it was pretty ubiquitous. It’s sort of like asking why Bachmann does so many USRA based locos - because with minor detail tweaks they can represent an awful lot of locomotives used all over the US.

–Randy

3

Oi vey, cannowurms opened here.

So “Icons” might be a kind of Canadian humour in operation here.

To “get it” you need to know that Canada insisted on building their very own locomotive designs in their very own locomotive fabrication shops.

For steam this was economic because every steam locomotive was built from scratch. Not so with diesels.

The main influence here is the CPR. They built huge fabrication shops at Angus in Montreal and Alyth in Calgary. CPR built almost all their own steam locomotives to their own designs.

In that sense every “Canadian Steam Locomotive” is an icon.

When diesel electric came along this no longer worked. You could do “Icons of Canadian Diesel” but they wouldn’t be.

Don’t mistake me, the guys at Rapido are very brave to be undertaking this task. They intend to build locomotives based on prototypes that operated nowhere else in the World and certainly not South of 49. Canada designed and built some iconic steam locomotives (and improved several American diesel designs, ditch lights and safety cabs for example).

Our ten wheeler, Consolidation, Mikado, Decapod and Texas (Selkirk, which really needs “mighty” to be accurate) wheel arrangements were nothing like yours South of 49. Generally, and exceptionally given other engineering areas, our versions were either bigger for the same wheel arrangement or more powerful for the same size. The punishing grades and curves just West of where I live drove innovation in our steam locomotive design and fabrication. For example, we had no use for articulated power but preferred extensive use of pushers.

4

On their site you look under steam locomotives they show future releases with dates, altough sicne they started slighly later, the dates may change. Also look online and some forums and articles will show on the announcment will show dates and which classes will released that year.

5

I understand these steam locomotives where built in Canada. I think I forgot to word that.

6

Bigger than usual tub o’cow turds here.

FYI: there was this thing called CLC. Another called MLW that was famous in its own right after Alco passed the torch. There was this other thing called GMD. In fact there was a while when GMD in London built the only EMD locomotives.

Then there were the first practical high-speed road locomotives in North America … two of them. Iconic. And 100% Canadian in execution, including requested adaptation of the Beardmore motors to suit them for railway service.

I could go on, but your claim is already conclusively demolished.

7

I don’t know but logically the Ten Wheeler would be followed by the Mikado, most numerous in part because pretty much every Consolidation was rebuilt as a Mikado. Then they should do the Consolidation. They have to do the Selkirk at some point but those will need 24" radius minimum is my guess.

A very interesting pair to make, with a very limited market, would be CPR’s experimental articulated 0-6-6-0 pushers, with facing engines. Fascinating design. Every single one was rebuilt into a huge Decapod and those were iconic.

But Eastern Canada saw the development of high speed 4-4-4 Jubilee passenger loco

8

ROFL.

MLW and CLC went broke trying to build American designs. GMD was just EMD. And went broke trying to build American designs. None of those manufacturers were Canadian by the time diesels came along.

But, sure, you would know and I couldn’t possibly.

CPR was the only Canadian locomotive manufacturer and they quit when diesels came along. CPR did not build diesels.

9

Rapido is indeed doing a run of this 16-44 diesel locomotive as its avaliable for preorder at the moment.

10

My order is in.

True trains did a nice Canadian version of the Lifelike Proto 1000 C Liners, including steam generator versions for CPR and those weird 5 axle versions in CNR colours.

Hopefully Rapido does those also eventually, very nifty styling.

And a 24 66 Trainmaster in CPR road colours would be awesome.

11

Atlas did the TM in CPR. Multiple road numbers even. And CN as well. Rapido doesn’t seem to like to duplicate unless they can make significant improvements.

GMD built at least one uniquely Canadian loco - the GMD-1. No US road had those. And of course Rapido made models of it. Even the oddball 5 axle Cuban ones this last run. The passenger C-Liners with their B-A1A trucks weren’t the only 5 axle oddballs. The New Haven, LIRR, and NYC all had those passenger C-liners in addition to the CN ones build by CLC. The CLC ones were only 1600HP units, the other were all 2400, except for some of the LIRR ones which were 2000HP. CP had some 1600HP 4 axle passenger ones, also built by CLC.

–Randy

12

This started with a fairly interesting question… What is the significance of each of the locomotives in the Rapido Icons of Canadian Steam series.

So far, I have not even learned what locomotives are in this collection.

-Kevin

13

I’m guessing that your quoted words are offered in jest.

The following Canadian companies built locomotives for the CNR and its predecessors, but as the railroad finally got its act together, they needed a lot of locomotives quickly, in order to replace many of the outdated ones which they had acquired with the amalgamation, hence their dependence on the American builders.

The Locomotive Machine Company of Montreal, built 189 locomotives, from 1902 to 1908.

The Canada Foundry Company Group, in Toronto, built 109 locomotives between 1904 and 1913, and Canadian Allis-Chalmers, part of the same Group, another 60 locomotives from 1913 to 1918.

The Canadian Locomotive Company Group, a conglomerate of several smaller companies, which eventually became the Canadian Locomotive Company Ltd., cranked out 1083 locomotives, in the period between 1854 and 1940.

Canadian National Railways Family Group (another conglomerate of smaller shops: CNR Moncton N.B., Point St. Charles, Montreal, Que., and Transcona, Man.) built 72 locos in the period between 1928 and 1930.

The Grand Trunk Railway of Canada (Pointe St. Charles, Montreal, Que.) chipped in another 495 locomotives in the period from1880 to 1923.

The Intercolonial Railway of Canada, in Moncton, N.B. added 12 locos from 1899 to 1914.

The Locomotive & Machine Company of Montreal added another 184 locomotives between 1902 and 1908…

…then, from 1908 to 1949 as the Montreal Locomotive Works Ltd, as an Alco subsidiary, contributed another 1274.

While perhaps not an amount to rival those out of the CPR’s shops, more than 2200 locomotives (not counting MLW) is not insignificant.

Wayne

14

Gotta agree with you, Kevin. I kinda lost interest when I reached the ‘ours versus yours’ part. I sure hope this forum doesn’t become one of, our locomotives are bigger and better than yours.

Rich

15

I have the Royal Hudson. I just hope I live long enough to snag a GTW U-4b (some were built in Lima, Ohio)

https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Grand_Trunk_Western_No._6407

I seem to recall the original projection from Rapido was August of 2026 or thereabouts.

I suppose I could settle for a U-2g as well:

6218_Chatham by Edmund, on Flickr

6218_Chatham-cab by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

16

2026???

Seriously, Ed?

We may all have passed away by then. [(-D]

Rich

17

https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/new-products/2015/10/rapido-trains-to-produce-icons-of-canadian-steam

It seems Rapido missed their first projected date by a couple of years…

And no Mikado

18

Thanks Wayne.[:S]

19

I read about the Icon’s of Steam when first announced; they seemed like BIG plans but my impression having followed it somewhat since the original big announcement is the list may never be completed and what is produced is naturally based on demand. I’ve read a number of issues here with the first release and Rapido has been ramping up production of many new projects and seems to be moving forward very slowly with the next project. Only time will tell.

20

Diesel locomotives were built in the London Ontario EMD shops until the 1990s, if not longer. Many were for overseas markets that ran on non standard guage tracks. They also built amphibious vechicles for the US Marines.

Gm restructuring meant the plant was sold to Caterpillar, and when the workforce refused to go to a company run, defined contribution pension plan, the plant was closed.