As it appears to me, “perfect” trackwork (edited) LAYOUT RUNNING, free from any gremlins ever popping up seems nearly impossible, or to take so much time and effort that you may not live long enough to ever get it done. So what is each of you opinions on when it is “good enough”?
I will state that my trackwork is not precisely laser level on all three axis, but overall it looks good to me and works smoothly most of the time. I dont generally operate long cars but I set my standard that if I can pull the few 89’ cars around with my GG1, E9, and 4-8-4 at unrealistic max throttle speeds, and push them safely at half that speed on my minimum 24" curves, it is “good enough” for me, even though it sways and wobbles and such and has the occasional derailment every once in a long while. I generally run my trains much slower and use shorter cars, and have relatively few problems, yet it seems “trouble free” track is an impossible dream no matter what speed of size cars I run. Problems just seem to happens out of the blue, and not even necessaily in the same locations or the cars.
So I ask where is the high and low benchmark set for trackwork? And what is the real level of “acceptable” to you?
(And on that note, I decided to model the PC so the occasional trackwork issues adds more realism to the theme…)
Track is just part of the formula. ALL my freight cars ride on Kadee trucks and wheels. ALL my locomotive wheels are perfectly in guage. ALL my track components are premium high quality.
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I have built several layouts, and none of them have had derailment issues.
i was satisfied with my hand laid track and turnouts until i started running another, larger locomotive. It had problems on one of my turnouts that hadn’t given me problems before.
i got out the NMRA gauge, made some corrections, and I’ve been satisified with it since.
i wouldn’t be surprised if i had problems with yet a different locomotive. But I believe if I do, I can correct them.
as an engineer, i’ve learned perfection is not required. But things need to be “good enough” for what I need. If you’re having problems, try to figure out what’s wrong and fix it.
Having hand laid my first HO track back in the early 50’s at the ripe old age of 14 needless to say I had all kinds of problems with track work. My dad was firmly against me switching from three rail Lionel 027 saying the little junk would never stay on the track. I had to prove to him it would. It took me many months to be able to run my 0-6-0 and dozen freight cars without any derailing.
I’ve built three layouts since my first hand laid shelf layout and always took my time laying track. I always did a good job or thought I did until my current and final layout in 1988. I made the worst mistake that a model railroader can make. I put a turnout at the vertical transition of a curved 3½% grade.
Everything ran OK until I bought my first Proto 2K E7 twenty years later. It took a lot of work to move the turnout (about 400 hours) but I haven’t had a derail since I made the redesign and repair. I’m a firm believer if you take the time to do it right your track can be perfect. I can’t remember the last derail on my layout that wasn’t caused by the dingy operator, me.
Current layout is still “under construction” Previous layout was built in the mid '80’s. There was no Internet, but I did have some Kalmbach books. I don’t know if superelevation was a thing back then, but if it was, I didn’t know/care about it and all my my track was level from a horizontal perspective.
I didn’t have vertical kinks nor did I have kinks at turnouts. Like Kevin I had zero derailment issues. I am alway surprised at the threads, where people have constant derailments then tell us how out of wack the trackwork was.
While perfection is unlikely, I strive for flawless operations. The track must not have any kinks or misalignments to create derailments. I hate having to redu track and start over. On my 1st layout, I had some issues from curves being too sharp. The current unifhsed layout tries to avoid that by being larger and with broader curves. Another thing is I pay closer attention to the blueprint.
Each of us have a personal idea of what perfection looks like. The challenge is aggreeing to some standard of enjoyment. I bet some actually like derailments because of the challenge in fixing something. Not me!
“Perfect” trackwork is a major part of reliable operation. What runs on the track and how it is operated completes the equation. Doing the best according to your ability raises the quality of each component thereby resulting in a layout that gives that builder satisfaction instead of aggrivation. A lot of modelers seem to think that 18 inch radius snap track is the only thing that is available to use in building that 4x8 layout and then can’t figure out why their big 6 axle diesels spend more time derailing than pulling trains. Be bold. Try laying some flex track with 20 or 21 inch radius curves. There may be derailments, but as in every other aspect of most things we do in life, there is a learning curve. Maybe your 6 axles WILL operate on your 4x8 with an additional couple of inches of curve radius. Proper weighting of cars, quality trucks and couplers, everything in gauge and at the correct height plays an equally important part in derailment elimination, not just perfect track. Those long freight and passenger cars might not look right doing it but, they just might operate better on the 4x8. Lastly, with the track and equipment in synch, these are model TRAINS, not jet aircraft. We may have operated our tinplate at high subsonic speeds around 0-27 or sharper curves but, if you are trying to run a model railroad replicating the movement of vehicles weighing 200000 to more than 400000 pounds each, SLOW 'EM down. I’ve seen videos of people switching, making couplings at a scale 50 mph, where the car being coupled to travels 3 or 4 car lengths before the whole mess slides to a stop. The sharper the curves or switches, the slower you should go, which may also contribute to that “perfect” trackwork–that truthfully does not exist. We just do the best we can with each aspect of the equation.
I certainly appreciate and applaud your level of dedication, but personally I would just give up the hobby if I had to take 400 hours to fix a single turnout. That is probably about the amount of time I can spend on the layout in an entire year and life is too short.
I like the mtbf failures method. Operating under “normal” realistic speeds, any current issues overall are very low, probably not higher than 5% of operating hours, and most issues that pop up are what I consider refinements, like filing points, and adjusting low hanging coupler wires, wheel gauge, or other car related issues as I am adding new cars all the time, and similar issues that a piece of trackwork magnifies. And considering trains should not be running at scale 90mph on 24in radius with full length medium coupled passenger cars, I think I can be happy with what I have. It is a work in progress so maybe someday the tinkering will get it down to a 0.1% failure rate or better.
But I still like to hear others opinions.
Maybe I should rephase that it is not trouble free “trackwork” I am asking about, but more about trouble free operation in general.
I’m retired so time wasn’t a problem to fix a problem that I built into my layout.
The turnout was the lead into my yard and passenger station. I had to move 6 tracks in my yard and shift my passenger station. And then there was the mountain and tunnel portal. I put off the fix for about 5 years before I took on the massive task.
I had to change the radius of the curve from 28” to 24” and shift the turnout 11 inches. The transition was a hidden track in a mountain, just lots of time consuming work but well worth the effort.
If those four are perfect, you should be able to run trains. If trains do not run, the hobby becomes frustrating very quickly.
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I try to get scenery in place as quickly as possible in every layout I build. If a problem shows up, I never hesitate to remove/destroy the scenery to make a correction.
I have not laid track yet, too busy building bridges. I have pre track rules though.
Don’t try to find out how tight a radius can be… make it as wide as you can…18"R min for N for me
Don’t try to find out how steep a grade can be… make it as gradual as you can… 2% max all scales
Create easements everywhere you can at the beginning of grades, coming out of turnouts and off tangents beginning radius
Put a tangent between opposing curves the length of your longest Rolling Stock you plan to use
Leave enough clearance everywhere for big Steam and Locos, your longest Rolling Stock especially Passenger cars
Track rules when I get to it.
Track joiners are only to keep rails aligned not for continuity. Solder feeds from each piece of flex to your main bus wire.
Solder track joiners to rails before laying them around a curve to avoid Kinks.
Be aware what your room temperature range will be in your layout room. Liquid expands in the cold a solid contracts in the cold. It is best to lay your track joints snug during the warm range of your temperature parameters. At the cold range of your parameters your track will contract.
Do not put grades immediately before or after turnouts big Steam and locos will laugh at you.
Well that’s all I got right now. I’m sure I forgot to mention something. I usually do.[:#]
PS I convert all my Rolling Stock to microtrains trucks with short shanks and microtrains steel wheels. I learned not to put Atlas Steel Wheels in them. The axles are longer and they bind.
I think this is a rather academic discussion, as there will be no perfect track, unless you build your layout in a climate-controlled environment using only materials that don´t shrink, expand or warp.
A “perfect” track does its job of keeping engines and cars on track and conducting power to the engines - most of the time! To achieve this, avoid making obvious mistakes when laying the track, i.e. bends, kinks and dips. Allow for expansion and contraction of the subroadbed and the rails. Check the gauge of your track as well as of the wheels…, In a nutshell, this is all you can do, but don´t expect 100% trouble free operation. Just remember, derailments are prototypical.
‘“Perfect” may be defined as having no detectable flaws.’
This, then, goes to detectable. That some NASA people with a 100 million dollar budget could find a flaw is inappropriate. It really means that all trains operate perfectly through the trackwork, and the track is visually perfect (being as the track itself is a model).
Thus, if one sees the word “academic” as implying years of discussion over unresolvable micro-points, it is NOT academic.
It also means that NO derailments should be track attributable. None!
Zero derailments. Not counting running way too fast, around curves too sharp for the equipment, or equipment not right. This is my minimum standard.
Appearance is subjective as some may want weathered track or other signs of aging, hard use, etc. and others do not. So, I don’t consider it in terms of perfect track.