I knew numerous Nickel Platers and never heard one of them refer to their beloved former road as “The Plate”. However, each area has its own little names and nicknames and perhaps that’s what they called it on the J. I do know that in the Chicago area, roads were called by their former names long after the former road had been taken over, probably kept it simpler that way.
The N&W had a plan, 800 lb. gorilla or not, but it wasn’t what most Nickel Platers thought of as a proper way to do things. Still, in the view of how things have transpired over time, the N&W merger probably preserved the Buffalo-Chicago main.
I think this must be the Nickel Plate promo film that Murphy is talking about.
It’s really a good film! It puts a lot of emphasis on the Nickel Plate’s high speed service. It also has lots of interesting information on train operations that I’m sure people here will enjoy.
I moved to NW Indiana in 1977 and one of my biggest regrets was not paying attention to the EJE Porter Branch. It seems to have been a great line, with towers at Hobart (I am a tower nut), and the eventual destination at Porter. The crossing of the Wabash branch at Crocker would have been quite a day to have placed on film. Thanks for the info on the traffic to and from the J. The NW at that time didnt run too many trains. Fans jokeingly referred to it as “Nights and Weekdays”, as we saw few trains on weekends. The merger with the Southern completely turned that line around and it became the line for all that freight from the Southern. Ed
Although the Nickel Plate ran few passenger trains, those it did run it ran competantly, buying lightweight coaches, sleepers, and diner-lounge cars to requip what it ran. Lots of this was sold to the Canadian National when passenger operations were reduced and then stopped. For years there was a single day train each way, Buffalo - Chicago, and an overnight, both with sleepers. Through coaches and sleepers on both trains ran through to Hoboken on the DL&W. I do not believe there was parlor car service in the Post WW-II era, although one good buy a first-class ticket and day space, either roomette or double-bedroom, in a through sleeper from Hoboken. The coahces were as comfortable as most long-distance coaches, comparable to what the New York Central used on the Pacemaker, and of course the DL&W on connecting trains. The passenger service was dieselized, replacing some handsome Hudsons, at least the equip of the NYC J3a. several years before diesels replaced the Birkshires (and fairly modern Mikados). I seem to remember that the Nickel Plate bought Alco PA’s, but my memory may not be correct, and I would hope for some corroboration or correction.
The NKP did operate Alco PA’s in its Passenger service. NKP earned its niche by its ability to handle meat and perishables quickly. Its main line was well engineered and constructed. John A Rehor’s book The Nickel Plate Story is superb for all things Nickel Plate. The Wabash was NKP’s big competitor; they fought for the same traffic
One question remains, if N&W had not merged with both NKP and Wabash could have either survived into the 1970’s? I think that NKP would hard pressed especially on its east end.
Probably off-topic, but hey! so are at least a third of the other TRAINS Magazine postings here. The following is sheer conjecture, not known fact. The EJ&E’s Porter Branch was probably built to receive traffic heading around the Chicago Swittchng District, a throwback to Outer Belt Days. Because of the length of haul involved, the J’s divisions over Porter Branch interchanges were higher than those accruing via closer-in ones. The downside: our industrial engineers had determined that we incurred proportionately greater expenses running out the beanch to service the interchanges – originating and terminating branch traffic was negligible, a few onesies and twosies, if that. We arranged for most of our connections to deliver interchange freight destined to the Porter Branch interchanges to hand off the traffic instead at the interior ones, but had them honor Porter Branch proportions. As for “belt” traffic (recall that the J once styled itself “The Chicago Outer Belt”), that, too was a loser. Overhead earnings (with the exception of coal trains, the routing of which we sought to be included in) were grossly non-compensatory – meaning they stunk – and the decision was made to exit the business.#### Of course
That appears to be a most interesting way of “un-soliciting” traffic. I could see how overhead traffic in blocks of one or two cars at a time from and to multiple interchange points could be unprofitable.
One aspect that appears to have been left unmentioned is, that the NKP was built in SPITE OF, those 800 lb gorillas.
At the time that the Senay syndicate built the NKP, Jay Gould was avidly trying to extend his transcon dreams to the east. And this was the last thing that Vanderbilt wanted.
The aspirations of each man was played against the other, and only the highest bidder would prevail.
That was Vanderbilt, who overpaid to thwart Gould. Once Vanderbilt had all that money tied up in the NKP, the investment was too big to let fail. So the NKP was given just enough business to cover itself.
Later it was sold to the Van Sweringens and began to function like a real railroad
Not being an expert in economics, nor even alive when this occurred, I defer to your judgment of the situation at the time. It sounds totally logical given the railroad barons of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries were at odds with each other and vying for monopolies.
I believe the term we used was “de-soliciting,” but it came down to the same thing – give your overhad traffic to someone – anyone – else, maybe BRC, IHB or B&OCT. As for overhead volumes, we were talking something on the order of 60 cars or less per month, which works out to fewer than 2 per day – not enough to get rich off of.#### I guess I’ve mentioned this before, but the one secret weapon the J boasted in its competitive arsenal had that none of its competitors or connections had was a standard cost system (foisted – or forced – upon us by our owner, US Steel, a/k/a “the Corporation” ). With this system, maintained and honed by a small army of industrial engineers and cost accountants, we could pinpoint every conceivable element of operating cost down to nth degree, a luxury that connecting carriers could only dream of (many of their pricing officers would appear with ICC Form A cost data, which we regarded – and scorned – as not worth the paper it was printed on.#### Consequently, we were able to nail down the losses we incurred to a far more precise degree than they could ever hoped to have done. When J cost people determined overhead traffic unprofitable, they did so secure in the knowledge that they were on firm accounting ground.#### Also recall that this was years before the Staggers Act came into play. After Staggers’ passage non-compensatory (unprofitable) traffic could be surcharged, the effect of which was make it compensatory or drive it off. Railway managements didn’t much care which, because the smarter managers were tired of having to handle money losing traffic wit
Thanks, but it’s not “original research” …the story comes for one of the many books I’ve read over the years, wish I could recall which one.
I strongly suspect that the Senay syndicate fully premeditated the eventual sale to one or the other before the first spike was ever driven. lawful extortion, more or less.
One reason the Nickel Plate dieselized passenger service before freight was to eliminate the expense of using Cleveland Terminal P-motor electrics and their crews and the stopping to add the electric and remove it. I think it may have been four years while the passeger service was diesel and the Birkshires continiued to roll the freight. And the Nickel Plate was very closed to a one-speed railroad. At least some of the Birkshires were equipped for steam heat and passenger train communication, also. These could be pressed into passenger service and did haul troop trains during WWII.
The aforementioned “extortion” is how Nickel Plate got its nickname. After it was sold to the Vanderbilt interests, William Vanderbilt complained that the price was so high that the railroad must have been nickel plated.
Well, I don’t recall having seen that before - but hey, all that might mean is just that I didn’t happen to see it when you did mention it before . . . [:-^]
That aside, I’m glad you mentioned it again. John Kneiling used to write to the effect that that most people assumed that the ‘steel roads’ had a cushy life - because the parent steel company would subsidize their operating losses if necessary - but the reality was that the steel roads had to earn their keep and were run as honest-to-goodness businesses with bottom-line accountability, and this information confirms and expands on his assertions a little bit, and vice-versa.
Reminds me of John also saying about how many sets of books were needed to run a railroad - 4 by my tally, as follows: 1 per ICC rules - i.e., Form A; 1 per IRS for Federal income taxes; 1 per Generally Accepted Accounting Principles and for the NYSE and SEC (though not applicable to
That cost accounting system would have been interesting to review (today).
Looked at my 1941 Official Guide - no passenger service. The OG does list quite a few freight trains that were operated:
Four out of Waukegan and three in and out of Porter with one in and out of Spaulding, a Griffith - East Joliet pair, three pairs between Griffith and South Chicago and two pair into Gary.
Back to NKP - two great books are Nickel Plate Road - Publicity Photos, 1943-1952, Volume 1 by John Corns and Nickel Plate Road Passenger SErvice The Postwar Years by Kevin J. Holland.
Regarding the survivalship of NKP into the 90’s??? Who knows, but it sure is a valuable piece of railroad these days. It’s weaknesses became it’s strengths and obviously the NS and CSX mainlines across Indiana cannot handle all freight today. It will enable NS to keep adding traffic in the future and develop alternative routes - such as the Claypool, Indiana connection today, which will enable NS to run Elkhart - Cincinnati freight more efficiently. Plus, the Super Center in Claypool is added business. It is an impressive stretch of railroad today.
My recollection is that the NKP was built as a “nuisance road” = a potential competitor to the NYC, so that it would be worth more for Vanderbilt to buy it than as a for-real operating railroad. However, with that said - I have no great knowledge or insights into this - following are links to some interesting info that I found while looking up the “Seney Syndicate”:
A short history of the NKP, 1881- 1964: http://www.madrivermuseum.org/nkp.html (which claims to still hold the copyright to the slogan “The Nickel Plate Road” !)
billio:
[snipped] I guess I’ve mentioned this before, but the one secret weapon the J boasted in its competitive arsenal had that none of its competitors or connections had was a standard cost system (foisted – or forced – upon us by our owner, US Steel, a/k/a “the Corporation” ). With this system, maintained and honed by a small army of industrial engineers and cost accountants, we could pinpoint every conceivable element of operating cost down to nth degree, a luxury that connecting carriers could only dream of (many of their pricing officers would appear with ICC Form A cost data, which we regarded – and scorned – as not worth the paper it was printed on.
Consequently, we were able to nail down the losses we incurred to a far more precise degree than they could ever hoped to have done. When J cost people determined overhead traffic unprofitable, they did so secure in the knowledge that they were on firm accounting ground.
Well, I don’t recall having seen that before - but hey, all that might mean is just that I didn’t happen to see it when you did mention it before . . .
That aside, I’m glad you mentioned it again. John Kneiling used to write to the effect that that most people assumed that the ‘steel roads’ had a cushy life - because the parent steel company would subsidize their operating losses if necessary - but the reality was that the steel roads had to earn their keep and were run as honest-to-goodness businesses with bottom-line accountability, and this information confirms and expands on his assertions a little bit, and vice-versa.
My 1916 Guide shows freight service only. the next Guide before that which I have is 1893, so I am unable to move any closer to a date when the J had passenger service.