Trains Magazine in the early 1970s had an anecdote about an EA-powered B&O train detouring over a nominally fast part of the NYC. There, the NYC pilot allowed the B&O engineer to run the train, but couldn’t resist making some wisecrack about it being a high-speed railroad and to be sure to get the train over the road. The B&O guy was described as a quiet type who didn’t ask questions: he did as told, notched out to Run 8 and left it there. I don’t now recall the exact speed they reached before the epiphany, but it was QUITE a bit in excess of nominally high speed timetable limit…
Overmod, the account of the B&O engineer who could run fast reminded me of the N&W roundhouse foreman who made it possible for passengers on a B&O train out of St. Louis to reach Cincinnati two hours sooner when the governor on the second engine stuck on “stop.” After talking with the crew, he sat in the second engine, listened to the first engine, and worked the governor by hand–saving the two hours that it would have taken a helping engine to arrive. (pp. 48-49, March 1999 issue of Trains).
I really want to thank everybody who replied to my questions. The above comment by SD70Dude raises one additional item of curiosity for me. In the event of an extended period of detours, suppose a bridge totally washed out for example, is it likely or even possible that the “visiting” engineer will become qualified on the hosts segment after a requisite number of passes under the supervision of a qualified pilot? (thus no longer requiring a pilot for the remaining duration of detours)
A few years ago, the UP was doing extensive work on the former RG track beteen Denver and Salt Lake City. On an eastbound trip aat that time, I talked with one of the Amtrak conductors (his regular run was Salt Lake Cty-Grand Junction), and asked if he should not be becoming qualified for that section–and he told me that he did not want to be qualified. He also told me that that morning was his last trip into Wyoming (crews were changed in Green River), and he was to be flown to Grand Junction to lay over there until his next trip west.
I would have thought the foreign road needing to detour would have to pay for the pilot’s time.
There are more occasions when pilots are needed in ‘same road’ operations. Detour moves are black and white issues on pilots and there rarely any conflict about them.
More frequently, with the size of seniority districts increasing with more and more territory being a part of the district - personel are used off their ‘normal runs’; and while they may have been qualified on another run at one time - the time since they last operated that line now exceeds the qualification period - by the qualification rules the employees is NOT Qualified - Supervisor insists that that the employee take the run under the threat of insubordination.
I was referring to trains called with Engineers who are not qualified on a certain part of their own company’s track.
For detours on short sections of foreign roads you are correct. For long-distance detours, like the CP trains that were running on CN’s mainline to avoid the 2013 Alberta floods, entire host railroad crews are used. We ran those just like they were another CN train.
Not qualified according to what details? How can not qualified be overridden?
Qualifications expire if you have not made a trip over the territory in one year - in some cases it may be 6 months. On CSX the T&E payroll system keeps accurate track of the territories employees have been PAID for operating on and when the operated on it. The normal method management uses to override qualification disputes is bullying with threats of charging the person with insubordination.
There is another time when a train may need a pilot:
From the NYO&W Historical Association website:
On the dark rainy night of Sept. 27, 1955 train ON-2 rumbled into Hamilton, N.Y., as it had done so many times before. Engineer Les Vidler had FT 803 on a 50-car train that night and was making about 34 mph when he–or someone else in the cab-- noticed that a mainline facing- point switch was set for a siding leading up to Leland’s coal trestle. The
engineer quickly applied the brakes,but the momentum was enough to push the train up the siding, through the coal-shed doors and the barnlike structure and out the opposite end. After the noise ended and debris settled, it was found that the 213-ton locomotive had “flown” 150 feet beyond the end of the coal trestle after taking off from an elevation of 15 feet. The drawbar between the A and B units snapped, and four cars had followed the air-borne FT’s. A fifth car hung off the end of the trestle. Two men in the 803’s cab, Road foreman of Engines Fred Lewis and fireman Oliver Wrench, were seriously injured.
The visiting railroad will be footing the bill for the whole cost of crews involved. The visiting railroad of course pays for it’s own crew. They will also pay for the pilot crew/engineer. The host railroad is going to charge, and I’m sure it’s more than just what the engineer/crew is normally paid. The visiting railroad really has no choice. If it wants it’s train to detour and doesn’t have an engineer qualified on the move, it has to pay the price.
When we’ve had planned detours over other railroads in the past-CN, IAIS, CPRS(DM&E)-we usually have our own people pilot our trains. What they would do is set up a pilot pool who become qualifed and familiar with the foriegn territory. They would then pilot our crews over that territory. One time on the CN, once a regular engineer had two trips, they would not even call a pilot for them. These types of detours are usually for planned work events like heavy trackwork or closures due to flooding.
When Amtrak has detoured over us, the train is usually handled by our crew, a engineer and conductor. The Amtrak conductor is back on the train. The Amtrak engineer can ride on the engine or back on the cars. I’ve had a few, but only once did the Amtrak engin
And this after I worked so hard to resist the temptation to mention Jean Bertin!
A little ‘less unseriously’, we might remember the pilot’s-license quip in one of the ‘alleged T1 high speed run’ stories. And the intentional and proud use of (open-cockpit style) pilot’s goggles by a ‘Locomotivfuehrer’ of the German 05s and other streamlined classes in the Thirties…
About a year ago, I was called to go dog catch an ethanol train off my normal West Pool assignment. Our calls are usually made by the ‘robot’ which gives a few details, one being where you start and end. Since I was starting and ending in my home terminal, I knew it was a dog catch. I also knew the extra board was exhausted, which was why I was being called. I took the call, knowing they needed someone familiar with the west end.
Upon arriving at the yard office and looking at the train summary, I realized they were going to want me to go out west to Grand Jct IA, pick up the train and take it though to Des Moines, east and south of my home terminal. I hadn’t worked those lines in a few years and was no longer familiar with them. (The difference between being qualified and familiar with a territory are technicalities, but something that is pertinent in our neck of the woods.) I immediately called the dispatcher. He asked why I took the call. I told him, with the limited info, I assumed I would go out west and bring the train in for another crew. The extra board can run through and are familiar with the routes involved. Going west was no problem, going east-and then south-I needed a pilot. He asked if I could at least go over to Nevada and get a different train. No, I’m no longer familiar with that part of the territory. If something happens, it’s on me. The dispatcher said to call the corridor manager. I did and left a message. About this time the conductor, who I also had told about this problem, comes back and said, “They’ve found you a pilot.” They took the last extra board engineer who had been called to take a double stack train to Clinton IA off that and made him my pilot. They recalled the next available East Pool engineer to take that train. That East Pool guy happened to be my union local chairman. I had already called him, if nothing e
Jeff, does the robot caller need an upgrade so it will not call an unqualified engineer or conductor to take a certain train?
Glad to know I’m not the only person to call the automated caller “the robot”.
In conversation with our crew callers I have learned that CN’s has a bad habit of placing crews on duty in the computer system without actually phoning them. Maybe it has been fixed now, but the crew callers were having to watch it like hawks.
We normally only get told our on-duty and off-duty locations when we are called. On a turn they are supposed to tell you the turnaround point at the time of call, but usually don’t. That part doesn’t matter as much, and will often have changed by the time you go on duty anyway.
When it was new, the robot had a bad habit of putting someone on duty and not actually calling (phone) them. I’ve called the AVR (the robot) to get put on duty after seeing that the robot hadn’t called me after seeing the train prompted on the website.
Our information is Job/Train ID, On Duty time, origin and destination station numbers, and potential conductor/foreman. It doesn’t say anything about trainees (engine or train) or brakeman/switchmen. If you’re the trainee, it says the conductor for trainmen trainees, the engineer for engineer trainees.
Other than on duty time, all is subject to change. Once in a while you get changed from a less desirable train to a better one. Usually it’s the other way around.
Jeff
Part of the problem is the callers not watching what the robot is doing. When the extra board is exhausted, there are procedures that should be followed. Some, because of territory, need specificly qualified/familiar crewmembers. Others, like filling in a yard engine vacancy are more flexible. If no extra board, they are supposed to offer it to the senior rested pool engineer. He can reject it, so they go to the next senior engineer and so on. Sometimes they just let the robot handle it. Our pools are numbered re33 (west) re34 (east) re35 (north/south) respectively. The robot on it’s own, seems to go to the 33 pool first. Then they try to force you to the job if you answer. I don’t care to work the yard engine. If I’m not first out (or first available) I don’t answer the phone when I expect it to be a caller/robot looking for someone to work off assignment.
Jeff
Even our #4960 steam trips had a pilot when they strayed from Q tracks. For Mexico, MO we had Wabash pilot on the head end. They also filled the tender with water pumpers from local FD. Later she started bringing along her own water tender.