Gathering infomation for this new club. When you go to a public display layout what items, attractions make you glad you came, saw, possibly paid or donated. And what makes you think, boy that was lame. Do you like to see operations? Do you need to see many trains running? Are you more excited about realistic modeling and operation or do you like to see the Carnival stuff, many motorized accesories etc. I’d like to here your feedback to pass on to the club members when we meet. Thanks, Dave
After years of touring club and museum layouts, I’d be happy if:
-The owners dusted it before opening the doors
-Someone went around and repaired all the details that were broken or out of place (figures that have fallen over, etc.)
…and the like. I am constantly amazed at how sloppy layout are allowed to be when the public is invited to visit.
Make sure it is accessible, both to those with physical disabilities and those who are not tall enough to see a “normal” height layout ie the kids, our future model railroaders.
I like to see things happening, trains going in both directions, meets, switching but not so slow as to be boring. And it is boring if all you can do is watch. The kids like to see action, have Thomas and/or Harry Potter trains running. The parents will be able to relate to those as well.
Have variety: steam, diesel, passenger, freight, short, long; you get the idea. Do not get hung up on operations when open to the general public, save that for other times. The public will not understand and will quickly walk away.
And as noted, clean it up.
Good luck.
I understand how difficult coordinating a public display can be. I also understand that many display layouts are modular, with modules belonging to different club members with vastly different skill levels as well as resources. So if my comments come off as rude or harsh, please do not take offense, I’m just ranting [2c]
1) Out of scale vehicles:
HO, and a few of the other scales are blessed with high quality scale vehicles. So I don’t understand why some HO displays allow Hotwheels or other way out of scale vehicles. Also different era vehicles on the same module really bugs me. It is perfectly fine for different modules to have different eras, but when one module has vastly different eras it just looks weird.
2) Circus/Carnival, and overly animated vignettes:
I know many people enjoy this side of model trains, but to me it never looks good and always a bit corny. Almost like you’re trying too hard to get attention from the crowd. This also applies to Lionel operating accessories. I sure hate those layouts with so many operating accessories you get lost in the noise and motion. Let your modeling skills do the talking. Less is always more.
3) Clashing eras running at the same time:
This is probably the hardest to control, but I tend to dislike seeing a long haul reefer pulled by a steamer alongside a modern double stack freight. The best option to avoid this would be set times to run different eras. But like I said, this is very hard to avoid since each club member has their preferences on what to run. And not all club members can be there at the same time.
4) Lack of consistent detailing:
So many times there are always a few stand out modules with well thought out scenery and designs. But then you’ll have a module with no landscaping other then a green painted base, a few
Hi cruickshank
Turn on’s
Neat well constructed reliable layouts that are well lit.
Most halls that would be hired for large model railway expo’s are not necessarily well enough lit for the event so some well made over head layout lighting is a very good idea.
Layout true to type toy, model, nationality, out door trains etc.
Attention paid to presentation ie skirt to hide all the carp that does tend to end up under the layout, neat well presented operators a well done presentation board that gives a brief description of the layout.
The public relations operative on the out side of the layout where he or she is easy to access and must be knowledgeable about the layout and how it was built.
Operating accessories are fine but must work faultlessly and not just be there for the hell of it unless it is a toy train layout.
Trains must be running at all the time whether in continuous fashion or engaged in proper operations mode this will depend on the layout type.
Turn offs
Should not take a lot of imagination, but I do get wild with bad lighting my eye sight is bad enough with out having to contend with bad light.
Do make allowance for mobility challenged or other disabled people they get just as much of a blast out of a well presented and thoughtful expo as we do.
Children can be a problem area so make sure they can see but not touch the layouts particularly any layout that is running garden trains steam engines get hot.
You can not stop children being children so be prepared for this they can and will catch you out if you miss something meant to keep them out of trouble, and make sure there is a layout meant and designed with them in mind nothing beats the smile on a child’s face when they see a well done meant for children’s layout.
all out of sensible order but never mind.
regards John
I’ve been to shows all around the country and these turn ons/offs are based on the typical modular layouts you see there (NTrak, HO, etc.)
Turn-ons:
Large industries that look like they can generate lots of traffic (coal mines, steel mills, etc.).
Roads that are actually wide enough to accomodate traffic.
Cohesiveness in theme (i.e., no Wild West town next to a modern intermodal facility)
Cohesiveness in era (if even just in a train). Specifically, all the cars n the same train look like they go together.
Gradual transitions in scenery.
A well-ballasted main (where appropriate).
Turn-offs:
The big floor-to-ceiling wooden trestle that’s there just because.
Giant dustbunnies, cobwebs, globs of glue.
Unpainted plastic buildings (one NTrack module I remember seeing had a whole town of unpainted DPM buildings, so they were all that uniform tan color with no signs or paint).
Stacks of tools and garbage on unfinished sections.
Layouts that run very poorly (each train operator spends more time re-railing cars than operating his/her train).
“Cute” modules like where a giant dinosaur is attacking the city or an alien has crashed.
Summary:
I think all my turn-ons would apply to the general public, but the first and last of my turn-offs are because I’m more of a prototype modeler; they might still be OK for the general public. But, I think as a general rule, if you model what people see (or would have seen), they’re going to take it more seriously than if it’s just a random collection of rail-related fantasy.
My experience in public MRR displays is mainly with N-trak, but I have toured some club layouts.
TURN ONS:
A Nicely Detailed Layout. I’ve always found that the general public will linger longer on a layout if there is more to see than just the trains. From an N-trak perspective, I’ve noticed that variety of scenery helps hold everyone’s interest too.
Plenty of Space and Good Egress. Most fixed clubs seem to want to cram as much of a layout into a space as they can, which usually comes at the expense of elbow room. This might work fine when it’s just a few club members running trains, but it’s a real issue when it’s open to the public and they can’t move around without bumping into one another.
A Neat and Clean Premises. This means that all the clutter needs to be put away and the floors swept. There should be plenty of storage space and workshop areas away from the layout. Make sure the outside of the building is neat and inviting.
Warm and Friendly Members. This has always been a weakness, mainly because I feel our hobby is loaded with introverts. If the club has open houses, make sure the more outgoing members (who dress well and bathe) are mixing it up with the public. Leave the crotchety nit pickers out of sight.
Lots of Activity In the N-trak world that means lots of LONG trains running. It doesn’t mean they have to be prototypical. The general public is not likely going to appreciate someone’s painstakingly detailed MOW train, but they always love a 60 plus car coal drag with a quartet of locos in the lead (and even some helpers in the middle).
TURN-OFFS
An unfinished layout. In the N-trak world this would mean an unfinished module in the mix. If it’s a fixed layout, there shouldn’t be too many bare areas under construction.
[b]Keep the Food and Drinks o
I like well-detailed scenery, particularly industrial areas where real railroad action usually takes place. Generally, the most pleasing layouts are the “mature” ones where the modules are mostly complete and well-integrated. I like to see a layout which features both some continuous running and some active switching.
At the same time, I like to see a “work in progress” once in a while. There was a small Free-Mo setup at the last show I attended, just a couple of modules. Half was well-finished with a fully-detailed street scene that I could spend a lot of time studying and still not see everything. The other half was only partially complete, but that kind of thing lets non-modellers see and appreciate the steps that go into a “finished” module. Since this was the recurring Greenberg show, I hope that I’ll be able to watch this “young” display grow through the years.
There is also a Young Model Railroaders group that has started exhibiting. Again, the first time I saw their layout, it was mostly a mismatched set of plywood praries. The most recent show, though, showed the growth of the group as they added scenery to individual modules. Yeah, there were the inevitable modules with oversized military equipment and dinosaurs, but one young lady had done some high-quality farm and town scenery, and a number of the others were coming along nicely, too. Just seeing this many kids joining the hobby was encouraging.
I’d have to say that my number 1 turnoff is the oversized cars. There’s just no reason for that on an adult layout. I’ve seen a number of layouts with engine-cams lately. I’ve got one myself at home, but the track arrangement on modular layouts really turns the video screen into a “crowd watching” exercise, with all the kids trying to get a glimpse of themselves on TV as the engine passes by.
And when I see the smiles on the little
While the suggestions mentioned so far are all good ones for established model railroaders, lets not forget one of the primary purposes of the show is to induce new people into the hobby/club.
The average non model railroad person is not going to notice the 1965 model car sitting at a grade crossing as a steamer passes. By all means, it should be clean, I think a lot of action on the tracks is important. If a younger person, even a preteen, shows an interest talk to the kid not his parents. Of course get permission from the parents before handing him a throttle or helping him do anything but look. And I do believe it is important to have either a section of the large layout or a small layout where it is safe to hand a throttle to visitors and let them get their feet wet. Especially children, they will go home and bug their parents no end to get them a train set. Even adults not in the hobby get a kick out being able to run at train on a nice layout.
All of the above!
The all-time bad guy is trains with sound! Ban them! They may be great when you walk in but after not many minutes it’s like being stuck in a metal box with a mosquito. If the punters can put up with it other exhibitors are stuck with it for a day or two. I’ve seen only one fight so far… the sound lost!
Plus… in no particular order…
Bad things
- Seeing more of the tops of operators’ heads than the trains.
- Seeing bad maintenance being done (that should have been done before the layout left home). If necessary give up and make the layout an interesting diorama.
- Clusters of officionados knowledgably (usually loudly) discussing “in group” subjects behind the layout instead of running the trains.
- Disinterest and/or rudeness by layout people when asked questions.
- Serious lack of any measure of a sense of humour. (Then again winding these types up can be fun…)
- Safety hazards like trailing leads (tape them down with gaffer tape) and fire-extinguishers blocked (latter has even more legal issues).
- Half (or all) the family sitting behind the display munching/slurping food all the time.
- Bored brainless family members behind the scenes - if they don’t want to be there don’t bring them!
- WORSE! Bored brainless layout operators! If they are bored what are the customers going to be? This is a matter of planning/careful layout choice. No matter how incredibly detailed a model is if the potential to do something with it isn’t there it is better displayed as a diorama… or left to the photos in magazines. Time after time I’ve seen nationally famous layouts at shows. Suddenly all that minute detail that looks so good in a picture turns out to be 3’ long and 1’ deep… people can’t get to see it without queueing/jostling/being jostled
Still labeling myself as a Novice, I would have these things to say.
RUN the Trains! Most newbie’s in this Hobby just want to run the trains. After 20 some odd years in the hobby, that is still what I enjoy. Thankfully having a 3-year-old Grand Son that LOVES Trains helps me to keep this enjoyment level for the two of us.
Of course now that I am up and running DCC, just insuring that all the DCC Units are up and running and I’ve remembered how to get them and address them to get them to run!
Last year I took my Grandson to three open houses in this area. Two were set up to be Operational style layouts and those running these Open Houses were doing the session as an Operational Session. This bored my Grandson very quickly, and I saw other people just as bored.
The other Open House, they were just running trains to do so. They had 4 different style trains running with different eras, and then a small loop with some Thomas Engines running. This kept both of our interests up and we had a much more enjoyable time.
It is hard to figure out how to appeal to the General Public, while also trying to catch the eye of possible new members. I KNOW I need to get with a Club and sharpen, re-new and add to my modeling skill set. But I’ve not found the right grouping of people that I feel comfortable with yet.
I have some engines that I would like to donate to a good Club. Some of these are little used units that I bought because I thought I needed them. These would make great display or running units for these Open Houses.
Chris
Well, to be honest, I’ve never thought about this in the terms the poster asked. I just love trains, runs from Lionel-Flyer-Marx through the scale layouts. I’m not much of an “operations” guy, but I like to see trains running in a realistic manner. As far as animation goes, I like to see signals, crossing gates and such that work, signals that are lit and such. I’m also not one to go to train shows or make the rounds to open houses, but when I have occassion to visit a club or private layout, I’m picking up ideas for my own layout. And yes I do agree, that a layout open to the public should be in the best possible shape for showing. Ken
What really turns me off is a club layout that’s locked down to a single timeline, usually in the golden age of steam and on which the club won’t allow anything newer to be run, diesels for instance. I’ve come across clubs like this. As I don’t have anything worthwhile that will fit that time, what use is it to me? None! The model railroad club that was in Leesville in the 80’s had a generic layout on which most anything looked good. The layout was superb. It had taken the club members (myself included) 4 years to build it. There were no major criteria about what could be run on it and the club members and guests enjoyed it equally. It wasn’t unusual to see steamers running alongside modern diesels, one example is one day we had 2 steamers (N&W Class J and a UP heavy pacific running alongside a team of F7’s and an SD40. Most of the viewers loved it, the kids went crazy and the rivet counters tolerated it.
I try not to be a fussy visitor and am not too troubled by strange mixes of equipment, out of scale vehicles etc. But I do think alot of people and some clubs get so accustomed to problems – places where trains stall or derail or cars uncouple due to height changes – that they do nothing about the problems before a public show. I know a guy who has a curve on his layout where trains derail EVERY time – not often, but every time. Yet when he has a public show he expresses surprise or anger at the derailments. It is as if he doesn’t even notice them at regular operating sessions. It is too late to maintain the layout once the show starts.
This is a bit of a pet peeve but I have seen beautiful modular layouts where obviously care was expended in having each module match the ones next to it in terms of scenery and backdrop colors etc – yet the track connecting them is out of the box snap track. It isn’t the snap track that bothers me, it is that there are no weathered rails or ties even though the rest of the layout is weathered. This would be so easy to address and is so distracting to me for some reason to see the solid black ties and shiny sides of rails.
One thing I do like to see is a very clear location for signing the guest book where you are not in other people’s way. And I also appreciate some way of alerting me to a feature that I might otherwise overlook, whether that is a novel way of super elevating curves or a detection circuit for signals
Dave Nelson
Fellers,
What I expect to see is neatness. I’ve been to many shows, and, sadly, there’s just some things that clubs do that drives me nuts. The show is about presenting the hobby. Showing interested (hopefully) parties what it is we do and what we are all about. One would think that, since that is the case, that lot’s of care would be taken to put our best face forward, but often that’s not true.
Others have hit the turnoffs. Clutter and dust. if you aren’t willing to take the time to maintain your layout, what does that say about you and/or your club’s layouts and functions? Members who haven’t bathed (I AM SERIOUS) or have food stains on their clothes. Folks standing around looking bored, empty food containers, drink cans, coffee cups, etc, even on the layout! Folks who can’t seem to dress appropriately,
Ideally, the hall should be set up into defined areas for vendors, club layouts, presentations, food/catering, family room, etc.
One of the best things I ever saw was a play area at a show for younger kids. They had this roped-off area with several adults to keep an eye on the kids, and each kid had a name tag (simple sticky paper tag with name written on. The parents could sign the child in for a little while to go look at something or decompress. the kids had a TV set up with Thomas videos on it, and a couple of large areas with wooden brio-type trains and plastic thomas and other stuff to do. Seemed to work like a champ.
Again, neat and clean presentations, friendly and clean greeters and assistants, easy access, well lit, and interesting. I don’t mind an unfinished layout, if it’s presented as such and perhaps even have some folks working on it to show what’s what.
A good display I made up has a length of flex track mounted on a 1X4 board that shows how track
Turn off’s:
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The same two or three mainline tracks running straight and rigid around the perimeter of the layout. [soapbox]
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Broken poles, buildings, scenery, or modules.
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Not being able to identify an approachable member of the club. This may be due to a lack of name tags, vests or identifying club paraphernalia.
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Members who don’t look for opportunities to interact with the public. [X-)]
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Asking a simple question and getting an enthusiastic thirty minute lecture. This happen a lot! I know you are excited to show off the layout, but I just want the question answered. If it’s not enough info, I’ll ask more.
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Trains which sit while the engineer finds the right buttons on the throttle or plays with the cars.
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Constant derailments or uncoupling. [xx(]
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Half done, boring scenery. [zzz]
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Trains flying around the layout at breakneck speed.
Turn on’s:
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Smiling, friendly club members. [#welcome]
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A sense of humor, whether it be shown in the layout (yes, the UFO [alien] or dinosaur scenes) and by club members able to poke gentle fun or crack jokes about the layout. [:D]
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Well detailed scenes with many things to ponder. The fellow milking the cow behind the barn, the shotgun wedding (with guns), the poor stranded motorist staring at the motor under the open hood, the cows breaking through the fence, etc.
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Scenes showing realistic geographical contours with a railroad that looks like it just happens to be there.
After reading most of the responses here, I feel I am somewhat lacking in “sophistication”.
I usually only have one request of the host of a club open house or a public model railroad display… run trains.
You see, when I visit a layout at an open house or trainshow I realize that the people who built and operate it are not professionals. It is a hobby!
As the saying goes, its their layout.
They are chosing to share their chosen hobby with me (usually for free or just a token donation) who am I to say, “You’re not doing it right!”?
Bowl of spagetti, or linear walk around? They (and everthing in between) have their own special charm.
Dust? John Allen once said he didn’t care if there was an inch of dust on the top of his GD cars - as long as no one put a fingerprint in it.
To paraphrase an old saying, the worst model railroad club open house I’ve been to was good!
-George
Good point Dave! I’ve seen this too many times as well. I’ve also seen matching modules right down to the joining track. I had to look hard to find the joining sections. But that is usually only the case when it’s modules from the same owner.
Most of the public displays I’ve seen were modulars so the track schemes were pretty basic. What I really like are well detailed scenes. Urban or industrial areas with convincing structures are really eye catching. For some reason, some of the corner modules seem to show a lot of imagination. Prototypical length trains are impressive as well, especially in HO. Also, prototypical consists, particularly with passenger trains. I like seeing passenger trains with a mix of car types rather than homogenous consists. For example, lightweight and heavyweight equipment on the same train or both smoothsided and fluted stainless steel cars. Also, passenger cars interchanged from other roads is a good effect.
Poor scenery is the biggest turn off for me. On the same modular layout, you will see a lot of disparity in the quality of the various modules. You can tell who just slapped on structures and scenery and who gave a lot of though and time to detail their scenes well. I’ve also seen some pretty poor effects. Maybe the worst was a module that had a track along the backdrop with a bridge over the creek. Under the bridge was a mirror intend to make it look like the stream continued beyond the backdrop. What it looked like was the stream was running through a hole in the wall.
For me, it’s simple:
I enjoy consistancy in design and attention to detail - It does NOT mean it has to perfect; nor does it mean that the personality of each club member is not allowed to come out in their own module. The design of the “loop” should make sense going from one scene to the next. (Not an easy thing to accomplish.)
Operate trains at prototypical speed! - This probably bugs me the most. However, I don’t lose sleep over it.
Tom