I have ponder this question for two months now and I still cannot think of a list of diesel locomotives that were bought and used on the Class !s railroads and later sold to Class II or III railroads. I know GP7s, GP9s and many other GPs are stables on regional and short-lines, but I would like to know what other models were sold and used on short-lines and regional lines?
Thank you in advance.
It is going to vary based on a number of factors. Era, locomotive preference of mannagement based on experience, length of the railroad, number of cars, track conditions, purchase cost and other factors. Basically I would bet it comes down to the ratio of engines produced. So if one was 1000 and one was 100 produced. I would expect to see 10 of #1 to each #2 engine.
Cheapest one they can find.
Pete
I model the Class II New England road Pan Am in present day. Pan Am has a varied mix but they run mostly GP40-2’s, SD40-2, GP40-2(W) and even some high hoods. They run a business train powered by two FP9A’s. They also lease. And you also see NS, BNSF and UP on their Patriot Line.
Virtually all locomotives at one time or another from an 0-4-0 to a 2-8-2 and from a 25 tonner to an SD45 were used by shortlines.
Highly era dependent, here are some of the more popular:
SW-1, SW7 SW1200, SW1500, MP15
S2, S4
RS1, RS2, RS3
GP7, GP9, GP18, GP15, GP30, GP38, GP40 (and the -2 variants)
VO660, VO1000, S8, S12, DR-4-4-15
SD40
Lots of other rare birds too:
RS1325
Alco 4 axles
Boxcabs
F units
Homebuilts, rebuilts
Some short lines use GP35s,GP38s…GP40s.Then some use a Alco switcher,RS1 or RS3…One switching road uses Baldwin switchers.Of course some use SW8s,SW900,SW1200 and SW1500s.If needed a SD7/9 would be used.
A short line selects their locomotive(s) by the avage train tonnage and ruling grade not because a (say) GP35 looks cool.
if the train tonnage is light a SW1 or SW7 might be used…GE44 and 70 tonners have lost their place with short lines because of their age.
More on the RS1325.
.EMD only produce 2 RS1325s and they went to the C&IM…I believe they are still in use on GWI’s Illinois & Midland .Cool looking engines
Thank you all for your comments and I believe rebuilding in their home shop was a popular trend or culture till those locomotives were sold off then the next owners took them in and repair any damages or upgrade the technology or trucks. The GPs serie is the type of models I think of on the secondary or third rail line even tho there are SDs and other locos on their line as well. I remember the Illinois Central rebuilding some diesel in their shops in KY.
A reasonably prosperous short line that ran heavy trains could field some BIG power. During WWII the Bingham and Garfield acquired a couple of ex-N&W 2-8-8-2 Mallets. They were hauling copper ore upgrade. After the war they shifted to trucks.
OTOH, the Quincy RR replaced their steam one-spot (2-6-2T) with a GE 44-tonner, #2. Their only ‘customer,’ the lumber yard that owned the railroad, might have moved six cars on a busy day.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Yes,some short lines used rebuilt GP9s like the GP10 and GP16.Some bought used CF7s from the Santa Fe.
When a big railroad sells off unwanted locomotives the short line will send a locomotive broker or their Chief Mechanical Officer(if they have one) to inspect the locomotive(s) they are interested in buying…Locomotives in poor condition is rejected.Some of the things the inspector looks for is broken frames,bad prime movers,bad electrical connections/ wires and missing parts.They also inspected the locomotive’s maintenance records and check the last rebuild date.
There are two types of shortlines, those that were small railroads in their own right. They were built as a small railroad and remained a small railroad for their life. They would be more likely to have bought some of their power new.
Then there are the shortlines that are cast off’s of larger railroads that were spun off during the 1970’s -1980’s when the big railroads downsized. They would be more likely to have used motive power.
The vast majority of shortlines are lucky to have an engine house, let alone a shop that can rebuild a locomotive. The vast majority of rebuilding is not done by the shortline, its done by commercial locomotive dealers that buy used engines from the class one’s, rebuild or refurbish them and make a business selling or leasing them back to other railroads.
The IC "Paducah"and the ATSF CF7 rebuilds were not done for shortlines, they were done for the class one to use for their own motive power and then when those locomotives were worn out or surplus, they were sold off to short lines. But the original rebuilds were not shortline rebuilds.
Only if they had the capitol for such investments…
Even short line back then struggled to survive and many was lucky to repay their debts and pay their stock holders…Of course some short lines was fortunate enough to buy their first diesel new and kept it well maintained until it wore out…A&R still has their GP7(#205) they bought new in '51 and its still remains unbuilt…
Brakie’s comments point out the importance of era. When a traditional shortline was built in the 1800’s they probably would have bought new engines. By the post WW2 era there would have been a surplus of 2nd hand small steam for shortlines to buy, but if they were looking for diesels, they would pretty much have to buy new, primarily because the used diesel market was pretty small Actually shortlines were early converts to diesels since the savings over steam was tremendous. One of the first railroads to dieselize was the Tex-Mex, which did it with new diesels, including some very unique homebuilt engines.
By the 1960’s the first generation diesels and switchers were coming on the used market, By the time the class ones started spinning off branches as shortlines, they were awash in second hand power. First generation hoods were very common and the early second generation engines were being expunged in favor of -2 era technology.
Over the last couple decades shortlines have bought new 6 axle engines to support some specific service, usually in conjunction with a move on a class 1. It has only been in the last decade or so that shortlines have been buying new 4 axle engines, primarily for fuel efficiency. Even class ones are using rebuilt, leased 4 axle power.
Interesting lists/ideas. I did not see many GE models mentioned. As I recall there are very few GE units from the first or second generation diesels that have been held onto.
Given the track restrictions of a lot of Class II & III RRs to 4 axle(also weight) locos, it will be interesting to see how the current crop of big(heavy) C axle locos are passed down. Although, not long ago the B&P was using SD90MacH IIs!
Richard
Dave is correct however,most shortlines in the 1800s was built on high hopes of better things to come and simply because the citizens wanted rail service…The bigger railroads passed by their small cities for a reason-very little revenue traffic.
These shortline bought new engines and a passenger car or two and needless to say they was deep in the red ink and some would never turn a profit.
A oddity though is some of these short line became profitable over the years and the short line would be bought by its connecting railroad and used as a branchline…Now advance to today and many of those branchlines have been sold to local interest and and returned to a shortline operation.
The shortline Minnesota Commercial in the Twin Cities uses big Alcos (like RS-27s, C424s) and a few other makes. Shortlines will oftentimes be using lots of varied locomotives compared to the ‘standard’ mainline locos on the big railroads.
They can be very fun to model because you could theoretically use any type of diesel you wanted (depending on how accurate you are trying to model a specific shortline or not,etc.)
The lines around where i live have alot of GP 38s
I don’t have statistics but it would seem to me that GP38-2’s would be pretty darn popular with shortlines.
Four axles, therefore easier on track, not too much power but enough when needed and relatively speaking, bullet-proof.
What’s not to like about the GP38 and GP38-2 series?
John
From some of the shortlines around my way have to say CF7’s, high hood gp7/9’s(could be ruinlt units(those random gp #'s with low short hoods), sd40(-2)s, b23-7’s, even some still running SW#'s or 44 tonners. Best thing with a shortline for your own railroad it could be anything you want seeing how everything is bought used. Just think about what your RR is carrying and how much of it at a single time and get what fits.
Maybe if they can get there before the locomotive leasers grab them…The leasers seldom pass by good used GP38 and GP38-2s and are willing to buy at a better price then short lines can afford…
However…
Enter all things railroad.[:-,]
Some larger short lines do indeed buy use GP38/38-2 or even a GP40.
Could you tell or not if they were rebuilt or not? Just wondering?