The hook is when they charge you shipping & handling, thats how they stick it to you. If a company only uses the word shipping bylaw they can only charge you what ever the carrier charges. They are not allowed to mark up shipping costs. I never buy from anyone online who doesn’t have that built in shipping calculator on the check out page. I have fallen for the low price thing myself more then once. I only got burnt once before I learned my lesson.
I got burned by them once, and never again! When I proceeded to their checkout, there wasn’t any indication of their shipping method, no choices, nor a price. Being in Canada I am quite sensitive to shipping methods as some, such as UPS to us are very exepensive. They charge us exhorbitant prices for collecting the sales tax we must pay on imported items - the same as our local sales tax.
I went back to my order many times during the next weeks, then figured they didn’t actually have my item in stock, and were waiting for it to arrive. When I finally did find my completed check out form, I saw they shipped my parcel my FedEx Ground. As I assumed, the parcel did arrive in about a week, then two weeks later I received an invoice from FedEx for $35.00 “processing fee”, PLUS the tax! My “bargain” model ended up costing me more than if I had paid more for it elsewhere.
I later saw something else they had on sale, so I phoned them and asked if they could ship it to me by US Mail. Nope, they said, when they lost their parcels it took too long to get the insurance. I told them I’d shop elsewhere in the future. Great customer service!
I have never shopped at wholesale trains, but your post seems a bit harsh. This reply is not intended as a defense of this company because I know nothing about it other than what you say.
First of all, shipping charges usually aren’t based upon the dollar amount of the order but, rather, on the weight of the order, the volume size of the shipped package and the distance that it has to travel. A $17 shipping charge is not, per se, unreasonable.
Second, a 7% cancellation fee on order cancellations is not, per se, unreasonable. It is not uncommon to experience fees ranging from 10% to 20% for cancellations and restocking. We, as consumers may not like it, but businesses often have legitimate reasons for such charges.
If this company has low prices and good customer service, I am not so sure that I would dismiss it on the basis of a $17 shipping charge or a 7% order cancellation fee.
Considering MB Klein didn’t charge me even HALF that amount when my order included an entire case of cork roadbed, yeah, $17 is probably too high.
The ones I don’t really understand are the independent people selling stuff, like on eBay. As a general rule I won’t order or buy from anyone who charges excessive shipping, although I recently did since my winning bid was low enough to make the almost $8 shipping fee still total less than the model would cost elsewhere - what I don;t understand is the guy is charging $8 for something that would fit in the smallest Priority Mail flat-rate box, and then shipping parcel post so it will take a week to get here instead of 3 days max. Priority Mail boxes are free, and you don’t have to go to the Post Office to get them, you cna have boxes delivered to your door. And since they are a flat rate I don’t think you need to take them to the Post Office to mail them, so it can;t be about the inconvenience of having to drive to the PO. Just puzzled is all, even with the shipping I still got a bargain.
I have to disagree with the criticizm of Wholesale Trains.
While I do not like the practice of not stating shipping (and/or handling) charges up front, I have made several purchases from them and never had a bad experience.
The most recent was the BLI Q2. My cost including S&H was $501. A far cry from MSRP or any other price I’ve ever seen. It arrived the day after the official relase announcement.
They also do not communicate very much, but again, not a problem for me. as long as they send my orders in a timely fashion, and the net price is fair.
I did have one issue, where they were out of stock on one item of my order. After what I thought was a fair time (about a month) I emailed and asked that the balance be shipped. They responded within a couple of days, and sent what they had promptly.
I have a set of BLI centipedes on order from them at $70 below the lowest price I’ve seen advertized anywhere else.
The issue is not whether a maill order outfit is entitled to charge shipping and handling, nor whether they are entitled to elect FedEx vs US mails. Of course they are. The issue is, are you informed what the shipping and handling charges will be BEFORE you make the final decision whether to purchase or not.
My experience with ordering model train supplies mail order go back further than most of you have been alive. Over all those years, I learned the hard way about who to use and not use. I found all sorts of gimmicks used to eek out a few more bucks from me that I would not have paid someone else. Quite frankly, today I only use 3 different mail order places, and they do not include the company mentioned in this thread.
First of all, shipping charges usually aren’t based upon the dollar amount of the order but, rather, on the weight of the order, the volume size of the shipped package and the distance that it has to travel. A $17 shipping charge is not, per se, unreasonable.
Guess you’ve never heard of USPS Priority mail flat rate shipping if it’s less the 70lbs it ships for no more then $14.50 (a large box lots of trains) or less.
I do not think there is any law on what ‘shipping’ means and what one can charge, I have sold lots of stuff on eBay. The actual USPS or UPS shipping charge is only part of the real cost. For a business, packing up the order takes materials/time. Maybe UPS or USPS will pick up the packages in your area. I have spent many lunch hours running to the local PO to mail out items I have sold.
The key item to remember when ordering via the web is to combine items into one large shipment. This keeps that shipping cost per item low. In my case, I can pay the usual $ 8.00 or so on mail order, or spend my time and fuel for a 150 mile r/t to one of the big LHS’s.
I have used M B Klein, TTH, & 1st Place Hobbies with very good results. If they do not have some kind of on-line inventory that allows you to ‘see’ if the items are ‘in stock’, pick up the phone and order the items to make sure they ar ready toship. This will avoid ‘back order’ issues and the second shipping charge when the rest of the items finally are in stock. It’s all ‘common sense’…
I’ve ordered one time from Lantz Hobby Shop and had no problems with the order or the shipping charges. They do seem to specialize more in G scale items than HO or N, and my order was for a G scale item.
I suspect a lot of sellers with high shipping hasn’t heard of that.
As far as handling most don’t charge that no more then they do for the foam peanuts.
IMHO those sellers that do charge this fee is using another rip off gimmick that is incorporated by those rip off sellers like you see on TV.-You know buy 1 for $9.99 plus shipping and handling-HURRY! Order now and get 1 “free” for shipping & handling…Nothing “free” there.You already paid shipping and handling once.
Its insane to think shipping a HO car costs $17.00 when it can be shipped using the flat rate for as low as $4.95 by priority mail…
$17.00 does seem like a lot but how is it based?? I order items fairly often from MB Klein/ Modeltrainstuff.com and I know that their bottom end shipping is usually about $10 for UPS, which is most likely the UPS cost and it is the same price if it is 1 item or an order of 15 items so I factor that in the cost to see if is it a better deal or the same price as my LHS. Now if $17 is a flat shipping cost and you buy 10 cars or 3 engines at a saving over the LHS then dont complain… if you order one $8 box car and it ends up costing $25 then that is your bad… But on the same note I have been to a few sites that have not listed the shipping cost upfront and surprise you at the end and they dont get my business… I think it is a sneaky business practice.
I’m not going to sit and defend shipping costs of other eBay sellers or on-line stores. But these are my experiences as a small time eBay seller:
the large flat rate box ($14.50) you mention has a largest internal dimension of 12". Guess what, most HO locomotives and passenger cars are longer than 12" when in their original box. If you don’t mind me packaging it loose in the shipping box, and tossing the original manufacturers box, I can save you shipping.
sometimes, the medium size box that is 13.5" x 11.7" x 3.2" can be used - and that saves a lot of money. But before listing each and every item on eBay, I must trial fit to see what flat rate boxes do or don’t work so I can have an accurate handle on my shipping and charge accordingly.
if the item is light (plastic), it often is cheaper to ship in a box of my selection, not in a flat rate box. Then I have to guess where it might be going, and how much to charge.
I insist on delivery confirmation whenever available (usually not on foreign unless I use a very expensive service, but I have never had a problem with a foreign buyer). Delivery confirmation has saved me from fraudulent buyers - yes, they are few in number, but they do exist. Delivery confirmation adds $0.80. Sometimes I eat the extra, sometimes I don’t. I am very aware that most buyers add shipping in when considering what they will bid.<
As someone who sells his personal used trains on Ebay–not for profit–I agree wholeheartedly with most of what Fred W. said above.
If we the seller skimp on item protection–sure–we can get it in that too small box! But is the buyer willing to accept the risk of damage to the item???
I get really pissed off at the Ebay buyers who have marked me down (below 5.0 rating) for my shipping costs when I never charge a cent more than USPS charges and if I accidentally do I refund the difference in full!
We the Ebay seller do not set the USPS shipping rate charges–yet there are buyers who give us a 1 out of 5 in that score category. A couple of those clowns is all it takes to drop you from a perfect 5.0 to 4.8 or less.
I typically ship my packages the very next day, sometimes even before getting the payment if I have multiple packages to ship, and most are paid for–and yet there are morons who complain about the shipping charges and the time to get it there.
Ebay sucks for the sellers. Till I pay those #@$% fees and then get hosed by Paypal, I’m losing 14% or more of the selling price–and losing money on shipping, because Paypal robs their percentage of that as well.
So as a seller, you can’t charge for the bubble wrap and other materials you have to buy to adequately pack items, because the “customers” complain about any handling fee at all–and then you lose money on the shipping charges you actually do receive–and shipping it immediately the next day seems to be not fast enough for some people.
I have bought from Wholesale Trains in the past and was generally happy with the service, shipping charges, and timeliness of their deliveries. If and when there was a problem (a defective item), they resolved it to my satisfac
I also agree with Fred and UPs comments about being an ebay seller. It’s not quite as easy as some buyers seem to think. OTOH, I just paid $15 for shipping on an item only to have it arrive with a $4.90 shipping label. I asked about a partial refund and got no reply. I am OK with eating it this time because the item cost was about 35% of a new one. However, that’s just not a nice policy.
Back to WST (Wholesale) I’d like to know what item was $17 to ship.
Even if I got charged $50 for shipping my last orders, I’d still be ahead based on the item price.
Regarding shipping to Canada; if you’ve done it within the last year, you know it’s a potential nightmare, complete with affidavits of content (or non-content such as bird feathers or periodicals that contain photos or ads of specific products) and declarations of value (try shipping anything over $50).
…and the $4.95 flat rate box is just wide enough for an HO car without any protection. Someting moderately heavy tossed on top, and CRACK. Next size flat rate is $11.
my order from them consisted of 3 passenger cars and a reefer trailer,all HO scale.
it would have been good pr to know up front I was going to pay $17 shipping
have no problem with restocking fees but a cancellation fee…
when they informed me of the 7% fee I asked them to forget about the cancellation but they told me it was too late and my card was already charged and I would have place another order if I still wanted the items.
who remembers “hobbies for men” back in the day,maybe they are related
Not sure if most customers know the credit card company charges the same percentage when a business runs a credit (unless it’s done before closing out the card machine the same day the charge is authorized) as they charge when the purchase is made. The business gets charged on both ends of the transaction, normally around 3% or more of total charge/credit. transactions. Bill