While on another thread, I noticed a definite dislike of 4x8 layouts. I’ve also been reading about dislike of them in other publications.
Mind you, if I had the space for it, I would consider a shelf type layout. I just don’t think that we should do away with the 4x8 either. I feel that there are uses for 4x8s as well as shelf switchers.
Man is not defined by the size of his layout, but rather how he uses it.
David B
Exactly my point.
Sure there is some need for the 4X8, but it is in no way a good use of space.
Neither is it good to have a 4x8 as you are bound to 18" curves.
I started with a 4x8 and is SOOOO happy to have gotten rid of that space eating monster…
If you are hard pressed for space, don´t build a 4x8, build a shelf!
A 4x8 takes an area of roughly 8x10, at the very least.
In that area you can have so much more interesting trackplans, just look at what Iain Rice makes!
Mike,
You are right. There has been and is a lot of dislike/derision of the 4x8 HO layout over the years. It continues to this day, but with less vehemence than in the past.
In my case, the layout started as a 4x4 and grew to its present 4x10 feet as the space became available. I too would like to have a larger around the walls layout, but I fear that is not in the cards any time soon.
From my point of view a 4x8 or 4x10 layout is better than no layout at all. If I fold my tent and wait for a larger layout/space, I would have three disappointed model railroaders. My two grandsons and myself.
Mike,As I said before and I will say it one more time there is nothing wrong with a 4x8 footer.
In fact I would build this layout if I had the space.
I would not go that far to state there is an animosity towards the 4 by 8 layout. There are some major drawbacks to it that need to be considered:
Just because 4 by 8 is a standard size for sheets of plywood does not make it a good size for a layout.
There is nothing “wrong” in building a 4 by 8 layout. They can be nicely done and very rewarding to build - just take a look at Rick Van Laar´s layout featured in the Feb. 2011 issue of MR. But why not to attempt to make something good even better by choosing a different footprint?
Mike,
As others have noted, the 4x8 isn’t the most space effiecient, nor as conducive to hard core switching as a shelf layout. And, as has also been remarked on, good 4x8’s do exist and will continue to be designed. I think the strong bias against them is just one of many biases that exist. Most folk have VERY defined ideas about what constitues a “proper” model railroad and what’s legit or not in our little world. Lip service is paid to “it’s your layout, do what you like”, but secretly (or publicly) we have our favored ways.
Besides, I hold that the 4x8 is kind of like a chair. Everyone knows what a chair looks like, but just for kicks try to design one that looks good and is comfy (and is easy to build, ship, cheap to produce and so on). You’ll get a lesson in how hard it can be, and in my case, a reason to admire the Italians for their designs.
Even the hard core guys have to design a 4x8 now and then for a client with money burning a hole in his or her pocket. I also like John Armstrong’s idea about cutting the 4x8 sheet up and making the 4x10 boat with pointed ends.
Lou
There is nothing wrong with a 4x8. It was my first layout I started building in my garage. Unfortunatly the economy came along and sucked all the wind out of my sails and I had to move. I didnt have the space for it so out to the curb it went(luckily someone knocked on the door asking if they could have it, i said yes of course so it wouldnt go to the dum). After that I am strictly a shelf layout guy now. I started with 2 corner sections things got better and we moved again(Who loves the economy). I didnt have a corner where I am at now so it is sitting SAFELY in my closet. I do however have a nice 8ft section on one wall that I am currently building the Timesaver+ and it is working out to incorporate into a bigger layout as soon as i get my basement. The point is that 95% of us start with a 4x8, yes you are constrained to 18in radii if you make it go round and round. But there is a 4x8 steel mill in one of the issues of model railroad planning that looks amazing. You build what you have space for and enjoy the relaxing fun that is model railroading.
Haha! Who cares what size your layout is. I sure don’t. I have recently started building a 4x8 where I work because there is no room for anything in the RV that I live in. I think 4x8 is the perfect size to begin with and add to it if you can as you go along. I’m using 22" radius on this layout all around the edge and 18R inside and it will have plenty of action for me. A 4x8 is easy because a sheet of plywood IS 4x8. just add a frame and some legs and whalla,you have a nice train table.
I don’t think anyone has any right to criricize anyone else because of the size of their layout. Just build what you can and have fun with it. I am thrilled to death to have this little train table at work and I’m having a ball with it.
Pete McGill,Bonita Springs,Fl.
I;ll have to say that it really surprises me that 4 X 8’s are looked down upon.
In fact 4 X 8’s are more challenging to model as they are usually walk arounds and you have to scenic them from all angles unless you use a divider. No back ground buildings here or unfinished buildings either.
For a lot of modlers it is their best and only choice. Not only that many would rather have a 4 X 8 than a shelf.
Are the 4 X 8 modlers to be drummed out of model railroading.?
Happy Railroading
Bob
The Model Railroader forum strikes me as a forum of profesional model railroaders. The 4 x 8 is a lot less intimidating for a 1st timer. You buy a sheet and you have your tabletop and can get started. The old Atlas track plan books have some really good 4 x 8 plans and detail how to operate it, scenic it, wire it, construct any elevated roadbed and so on. They were really excellent books. I just saw on the Layouts and Layout Building portion there is a 6 page thread 4 x 8 Layout Advise.
Dennis San Fernando Valley CA.
Come on, Bob!
Nobody looks down on a model railroader with a 4 by 8. But there is also no reason to withhold the arguments against a 4 by 8, when asked.
Graffen,
Although it does push it fairly close to the edge, you can squeeze R22" curves (with a 2" buffer) onto a 4 x 8" layout. It looks much better, too.
Tom
Please bear with me. I’m going to put up a point of view that I posted on another thread, 4x8 Layout advice:
I do have one reason for a 4x8 (or in my case a 4x6) over a shelf layout. If I had a finished basement or dining area, I would be able to run my trains on the layout and then later on, stand it on end (or side) and put it against the wall (or any other out of the way location) for other uses.
People don’t always have the space (or spouse/roommate) to dedicate ONLY for model railroading.
I’m going to try to not make this thread about me and my layout. I’m only going to discuss the concept of my layout and its portability (Port Able). I plan to start building it after Easter as time frees up.
The design is not groundbreaking. It’s a 45 inch by 63 inch loop with 3 trailing point turnouts. It will break into 3 secti
Yes, I did start with a 4 x 8 and over the years have had other designs, including a shelf layout. I am now retired, moved to a home with a basement and while I now have the space for a large layout, retirement funds don’t allow for a lot of discretionary spending. So, I have reverted to my childhood so to speak and am in the process of building a 4 x 8 layout that I found on-line that is a modification of John Allen’s original Gorre and Daphetid.
This layout has a logging theme, fits my skill and resource level and allows me an opportunity for scratch building wooden structures, trees, trestles, rolling stock, etc. that I find very enjoyable. My model railroading interests are scratch building, running trains, with the operational aspect of our interesting hobby a distant third.
I understand and agree with the footprint issues mentioned above; however, the 4 x 8 that I’m building just happens to meet my needs and skill level at this point in time.
Wayne
I’m sorry. I meant a compilation.
Yes, but then there isn´t much room for anything else [;)]
I know that the 4x8´s you see in the mag´s are often made with a mix of 22" and 18" curves, but it is nevertheless the smallest radii that defines what equipment you can run on it…
I know of one who built a layout where he used curve in the 22" to 30" span, but he had a tigt spot where he decided to use a 18" curve… Does he regret that? You bet! [:D]
IIRC, John Allen’s original Gorre & Daphetid was a 4x8 (or possibly 4x6) layout and instead of discarding it as he expanded into his entire basement, he just added onto it, keeping the original layout as a mining branch.
Tom
Time marcheth on. People live in larger homes now, generally. You should see the expanded home my Dad grew up in in the mining town in northern Ontario. His dad, a carpenter at one of the local gold mines, lifted the roof in 1930 or so and added a whole top floor. Still only had maybe 900 square feet. Many apartments are that size today.
So, while 4X8’s were common many years ago, I think the hobbyist tries to encourage a newcomer to work out something from the area of a 4X8 and make something a little more like what we see when walking along the real-world tracks. To me, that is really the issue, or at least one of them. The tight radius is also a bit of a bite on reality, along with the reality of trying to move around a sheet of plywood and not bang one’s head on an angled roof or basement joists…or worse, crawlspace joists. A 4X8 knocks the heck out of a single car garage.
It may read as animosity, and I am sure those who conclude they have little practical choice but to work with a sheet of plywood feel that their circumstances and choices are disdained when they read opinions posted here that are contrary to their use. I would like to blow some smoke and say it isn’t personal, but for both parties discussing the matter, it darned well IS personal. Everything about the hobby is a personal decision, and we naturally invest a lot of emotion in it. It is worse when the self-doubt, or the realization comes, that the 4X8 may not have been the best choice…if it comes. Then we have to talk to others who share our waking hours, and discretionary dollars, and admit that we, uh, may have been a bit hasty.
It should suffice to say that quite a few of us have moved beyond the 4X8 the same way many of us have moved to larger homes, and for the same reasons. I would hope there could be some encouragement for everyone to try to consider the intended message, however unartfully it m