Why close enough is still good enough for me

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

As some may know, I working on a fairly large layout with a very specific set of modeling goals.

One of those goals is reefer traffic, both meat and produce.

I model 1954, right at the beginning of mechanical reefers. And since ice reefers lasted serveral more decades past my era, to this point I have only concerned myself with buying/modeling ice reefers.

My fleet of about 100 ice reefers includes very detailed and accurate models like Intermountain and the new 50’ ATSF ice reefers from Athearn, as well as lots of older more “generic” models like those from Athearn, Walthers, Train Minature, Silver Streak, etc.

After reading several articles about the developement of mechanical reefers in the late 40’s and early 50’s, I decided I should have a few. So the model and prototype research began.

How disapointing! - I can find no models of the earliest 40’ steel mechanical reefers, and the only model of the commonly built 50’ mechanical reefers of the early and mid 50’s is the age old Athearn 50’ smooth side riveted car which apparently, according to all the online “rivet counters” is not really correct for any of the early mechanical cars, but actually takes features from all of them (R-70-6, R-70-8, R-70-10, etc).

The old Pacific HO kit from the 60’s was a similar car, now long out of production.

So, since I’m not about to go on some wild brass buying (if they exsist) or scratch building spree just to ad a few mechanical reefers to the mix, whatever Athearn Blue Box or RTR versions I can round up will do just fine.

And, I have found one Pacific HO kit, unbuilt, on Ebay.

So even with all this great product, there are STILL MASSIVE holes in prototype accuaracy - and I model the ever popular “transition era” - But five companies make Big Boys? (something I have never owned one of in 40 years)

Sheldon

2

So even with all this great product, there are STILL MASSIVE holes in prototype accuaracy - and I model the ever popular “transition era” - But five companies make Big Boys? (something I have never owned one of in 40 years)

Sheldon

Absolutely…I am not aware of any correct plastic Southern bay window Cabooses in HO or N.

The missing prototyical correct list seems to be endless.

3

For what it’s worth, Sheldon, I would agree, and have said so about Pacific Class engines on this and other fora. I would like at least one of the better manufacturers to market a Pacific type or two for all those who have no hope except a lot of bashing or brass. Or building them from the flanges up. Heck, I would be in the market for a couple for sure. CPR would be great.

However, the companies have to go where they smell the money if they want any type of retirement as individuals. Their adoring public wants Big Boys, J Class, Challengers, GEVO and ACE’s (and growing in a geometric progression, by the way), F and E units covering pastures, and more than the occasional head-scratchers like the Triplex (?!!). The mainstays of railroading from about 1900 until the end of steam were 2-8-0’s, 2-8-2’s, and 4-6-2’s, and in huge numbers. For every Allegheny or Y6b erected (and gosh to I love both engines), there were 80 of each of the Mikes and Pacifics out there across the land.

Yes, we may be in the golden years of the hobby, and some would say the golden RTR years, but if the best is yet to come, somebuddy’s gotta cough up a few Pacifics!!!

Crandell

4

Sometimes close enough has to do. Other times, stretching a time frame will have to do.

Modeling August, 1956 may not work well in buying stuff for all of August 1956. One may have to stretch it to “late fifties” to get stuff that may have operated in that broader timeframe. Or one has to be willing to scratch build or kit bash to get what would be needed.

That is one reason I don’t pinpoint a timeframe. Rather, I have more pragmatic time frames.

There will always be “massive holes in prototype accuracy”, and yes, 5 companies will make bigboys.

Why? cause not everyone wants those very first mechanical refers, but many will want a big boy, even though they only ran on one RR and only 25 of them ever did/do exist. {BTW the Big Boy is not really so impressive in person- there is one at Steamtown} It’s the novelty of the bigboy that sells it.

5

Really?

uhhhh, I’ll drop you you a hint, viewing a stuffed and mounted steamer isn’t the same as having on go by at 70 mph.

Speak for yourself in the future mkay? thanks.

6

Big Boys and Turbines, era and road specific units will always have a broader appeal than correct way cars of any maker. Lots of guys just don’t care if there’s no correct mechanical reefer or 40 foot rbl’s for that matter, the moneys on the locos.

For what it’s worth, the Athearn 50 foot mechanical reefer isn’t to bad a stand in for the PFE and Santa Fe cars. Wright Track models makes a correct 50 footer, kit, but they’re not at Athearn prices and you’ll have to paint them.The Pacific HO kit can be upgraded using correct ends and roofs from various makers to build an accurate model of the earlier versions.

Accurail’s introducing a forty foot iced reefer with a plug door, these should help fill out your roster shortly. Some times close enough has to work. mike h.

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The Wright Trak car is shown on their web site with no roof walks or ladders and no prototype info is given. I neeed/want R-70-6’s, as built in 1953, with roof walks, full ladders, and from the few photos I’ve found, friction bearing or inclosed Timken roller bearing trucks.

I have no problem changing trucks, I have no problem with painting or craftsman kits, but the pickings are slim.

Some will be lettered for the usual suspects, PFE, FGE, etc, but a few will be lettered for my ACR.

And I don’t need a ton, since they would have been new and still out numbered by the ice reefers.

Sheldon

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Sheldon, check with them, the photo shows no grabs what so ever. I believe the earlier shots I saw on their site had roof walks and ladders. This is a correct early version car, it has the shorter doors, like the Pacific HO car and correct stack for diesel engine exhaust.The Athearn car has the taller doors, one incorrect end and wrong roof. I believe this Wright Track car is a better version of the Pacific HO car. mike h.

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5 manufacturers all with ‘big boy’ and no one making 40’ reefers? Yeah. OK fine…

But we make things that sell–to make money–which could be used to make other things–but money, being an in itself rather than for others is what does the trick here I guess.

Gotta check that one out–

10

Most people who see my layout have no idea of the difference between the freight equipment, or what is period correct. We’re in it for the fun. I get as close as I can and make up the rest.

I was at a show not too long ago and my 8 year old son son and I were purchasing a few additional cabooses. My son loves them. The guy next to us actually said we were wasting money on equipment that was not “revenue service”. I was floored. What a jerk. Who the he^* did he think he was? I gave him a stern look and walked away with our additional 3 cabooses.

I say do whatever you feel like. If someone has anything bad to say, too bad for them. This is supposed to be a hobby, and a fun one at that. After all, we are not all Dave Frary.

11

That phrase, DOES, indeed, “speak for myself”. I don’t find it impressive, I didn NOT say EVERYONE Finds it unimpressive,

In the future perhaps you should think that someone IS speaking for themselves. Okay? Thanks.

12

close enough is good enough for everybody. it just depends on how close, close enough is to each person.

grizlump

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Or even walking along side a much smaller steamer and feeling the heat coming off that HUGE, (in relation to the much smaller steamers in England) boiler as an 8 year old just-a-come from England in 1947 as it switched the Wrigley Gum Factory here in Toronto, Canada. And that was not even 150 feet away across the street from my adopted grandparents house on Boston Ave. The biggest thrill though was when one of the factory workers would throw down a big handful of packets of gum to the handful of us kids waiting below.

I really do feel sorry for all those who have never felt the heat from the boiler or the steam bleeding off or heard and felt the clanking and banging of those drivers and rods and heard the wail of a steamer from up close. It is something that you just NEVER forget.

Blue Flamer.

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Blue Flamer:

I agree 100% with you. I grew up near the Pennsy yards and the N&W in Columbus, Ohio and I can still hear those beautiful sounds in my mind. The smell of coal smoke and hot oil combined with the sound of all the clanking and hissing when an N&W articluated went by is something that is impossible to explain to someone who has never experienced it.

Joe

15

Nice to see you guys all hi-jacked this thread over one line I expressed as an opinion.

Poor OP!

Now, lets all kindly return the thread to the OP and other people who might express an opinion on his original subject, just like I did.

16

Well, I might as well ad my 2 cents worth here and that is that the entire hooby is really just a “representation” of railroads either as we remember them or as we see them.

Keep in mind that steam engines do not really have a big round electric motor powering them, nor do diesels for that matter.

Granted we would like to make our “equipment” as close a representation as possible but then again that is not always possible so in the final analysis we make the best with what we have to work with.

Can you ask for more, certainly, can you expect it, of course, will you see it, maybe…in the long run it comes down to “does the train you have running down the track give the feel and spirit of a real railroad”?

That is a question only the individual can answer, but remember, as soon as you start elevating your models to “correctness” you will be inclined to want to do that to all of them. The end result being that old faithful “whatever” you bought 10 years ago looks out of place so then you have to ask yourself “at what level am I satisfied or am I ever satisfied”.

Personally I go for nicely detailed equipment that runs well without problems, if the ends of some of my boxcars aren’t correct so be it. It doesn’t bother me as long as they “look” the part.

And for those dear people who feel it is their place in the world to share their vast knowledge and to inform the rest of us what is wrong with our models, please, please don’t volunteer your knowledge until it is asked of you.

As my old Mother used to say, “if you can’t say anything nice you should probably just keep your mouth shut”. Good advice for the nitpickers and rivet counters among us.

17

That’s some way to put it, but I’d like to say this same thing to a car-addict about collecting Corolla instead of Ferrari because, IMO, they are all the same cars. Say the same thing to an athlete! Wow, you will looks like a jerk to all of them. Better, put the same statement to arts… Sure trains sound like toys, so people think about it as a mere toys and don’t care it can be as serious as playing basketball or collecting 19th century norwegian stamps. Honestly, I don’t care about hockey cards, probably because I don’t have enough respect for the guys depicted on them, but at some point, I can understand all the logic and subtelities behid this hobby and respect the collector.

Honestly, if I start to see my hobby, which is in fact a game, with the same eyes people around me see it, I will stop to do it, fake myself a false life, waste my time and money in bars, spas and sushis because it looks cool in their eyes. At some point, you have to live your own life… Enough complain, returning to Sheldon’s interrogation! And don’t take it personnal, I’m just made it a general case! Your point was good about some over-the-top hobbyists.

At some point, we are into this hobby because we are “serious” about it, we like an aspect, a propotype, whatever, and we build a coherent story that helds everything together. I understand pretty well Sheldon. He got fascinated with a interesting aspect of RR history, but no easy way out to depict it on his layout.

@Sheldon: It’s the never-ending story of my life. I model Canadian prototype, small steamers, small Alco-MLW diesels… in the only French-speaking speaking part of N. America which means different architectural styles for most of the older buildings (try to find a French 6-pane wind

18

Lets’s see, model trains and automobiles? Oh yea, that’s apples and apples!

Mark

19

To all, thanks for your thoughts, be they philosophical, practical or even off topic. Unlike some I am not offended by off topic rabbit trails, it is the nature of conversation.

As someone who has been doing this stuff for 40 years now, I am not new to the idea that our models are just “representations” and I have always approached this hobby from the broader “realistic impression” view rather than the “closer” rivet counting view.

In fact, in other discussions some of my broad view ideas have been less than well received by some in these days when many are very focused on “each model” rather than the impression of the “whole scene”.

I found it amusing that in a recent thread a number of people bashed the “quality” of Athearn blue box rolling stock, and what they where actually “bashing” was prototype accuracy, yet most of them would not respond to my requests for them to clarify their “low quality” comments. And we where told in mass how Athearn BB cars are not wanted any more because there is so much “better” stuff out there now.

BUT now we find that a lowly Athearn blue box car is likely the only, or nearly only, reasonably close model of a PFE R-70-6 mechanical reefer built in 1953. And I will admit, that while not bad as 1960’s shake the box kits go, this piece by no means Athearns “best” in terms of detail - accurate or not.

How could that be?

I will repeat, for the benifit of those not buying models from the era I model or not buying Athearn Ready to Roll at all - Much of the current Ready to Roll line is just BB kits with better paint jobs and metal wheels. Some have a few upgrades, many are newer MDC tooling that has finer detail, and few, like the 50’ ATSF ice reefers, are exceptional examples of what can be done in model production today.

And I still suspect that the demise of the BB kit is the result of shifts in the hobby including much more demand for ready to run. As well as a shift toward more

20

I like to say that in model railroading, “realisitic” has two meanings. First it means trying to get our models to represent the real thing in miniature as closely as possible. The second is more in the sense of “get real”…that we’ll never have all the products (and for many of us, skill) to really do a perfect layout, so ‘realistically’ we need to accept that and just do the best we can with what’s available.