I will start off by saying I am a huge advocate of public transit whether it be Rail, Bus, or Hover vehicle I think for the betterment of society it is critical and that our society being Wedded (scratch that welded) to the automobile is not good for our society and it is a problem that not only needs to be addressed, but is a cost, drain, and burden on our society. However I view it as worthless to blame someone else for the public problems of our society, and I so see that there are advantages to automobile and that public transit should merely supplement not replace the automobile. I will use Los Angeles as an example because it’s situation reflected much of the entire nation. Why do I discuss these issues? I discuss these issues because our nation is starting to see the light and starting to build public transit and invest in it again.
So why really did public transit fail?
For the most part interurban systems were used as a way to sell something and were privately owned by real estate vendors and utility companies. Once the businesses that supported these systems went away so too did the method of subsidy. The interurban rail systems lacked money to continue on and profitability. These systems were run for the sake of shareholders not the riders and thus the public generally distasted these private companies and were happy to see them go regardless. In the case of the pacific electric they needed to build a tunnel or bridge in Downtown LA or be given the boot but they had no money and couldn’t build such improvements.
Another point I would like to bring up is that often the interurban systems suffered from differed maintenance of no maintenance all and thus systems literally fell to pieces due in large part to what I mentioned above ^
The obvious one is the automobile’s convenience and flexibility is hard to match for most people and generally speaking automobiles were more available than public transit
When you say it needs to be available in as many places as possible, what are some examples of places where it would be impossible to be made available?
In sparsely populated areas there are things like dial-a-ride vans. While some auto owners want to be able to drive anywhere, other people want public transportation to be able to take them anywhere they want to go.
Population density is dictated by the transportation system. Once the government built the roads there was no way other systems could compete - the government doesn’t pay taxes and has eminent domain. $4/gallon is the only answer - price the public out of their cars.
Another reason for failure is failure of government to control costs. I sight the current decline in the Pittsburgh PA system. Over the last two years over 30% of services have been cut to reduce costs. Further reductions are planned this fall to the point business are telling their employees there may NOT be parking available ‘Dawntawn’ and best to lease spaces now. Having traveled to Pittsburgh for over 15 years, I have seen a system of light-rail, modern bus-ways, and mix of public/private bus work very well (built out in the 1980’s.) These systems were very heavily used, were on-time, and a pride of the city.
However, due to high on-going operating costs, the advances in modern day public transit is being forced into a death spril, cut back service and routes to cut cost, less riders/less funding, cut back more and lose more riders. The state of PA does not have the funding for schools, the sick and old-folks let along extra for mass transit. Additionally, look no futher than the $ 500 Million expansion project to bring the ‘T’ to the sport center on the North Side. It was a hoot on the first day folks used the ‘T’ to watch the Pirates only to be stuck after the game when there was not enough Motormen to run the cars! So the grand experiment that integrated light-rail, bus and roadways will be marked as a failure leaving the general population without any alternative transportation.
If we dare to risk a look over the fence to Germany or Japan, we will see people owning cars and still using public transport to a high degree. Just to be fair, this hasn´t always been that way.
Public transport, just like in the US, had been on the decline in the 1960´s and 1970´s, when streetcar lines were closed and replaced by bus service. Ridership figures went down at a higher rate than the no. of automobiles grew.
Change came in the late 1970´s, when people learned, that it being stuck over an hour in rush hour traffic may be not the smartest way to commute to work. That time marked a change in trend. Streetcar lines were re-opened, ROW´s were being separated from the roads or even put underground, new streetcars were put in service, and ticketing systems were unified in urban areas. This process is still not concluded and each year sees a number of improvements.
However, there is a price tag to that. These systems can´t be run as private enterprises, “doomed” to make a profit. While operating profits have gone up, none of the public transport systems we have in Germany recovers its capital cost. They all rely on some sort of subsidy from tax money…
As long as such subsidies are regarded as “un-American” or even “socialistic”, any attempt to re-introduce public transport in the US is bound to fail.
OnthBNSF, I am also a big believer in public transit, and in reading your initial post, I realize that I would probably go on an on about it as well. That’s why I try to hold back on my comments. Public resistance to transit, i think, is a mix of several different trains of thought. One is that over the last few decades we have developed a fear of each other. We don’t want to be around people who are different from us. Radiating out in all directions from the town where I live are roads that mile after mile are lined with what I call “yuppie pods”. Each has a gate facing the road with a name containing various combinations of words like"Timber", “Wood”, “Lake”, “River”, “Forest”, “Glen”, etc. The houses in each are very simular, the residents are all in a simular financial “class”, and they all have SUV’s that try to look like each other. They go to work or shopping insulated in their own vehicles. Anyway, my point is that this pattern of population density makes public transit very difficult to manage efficiently.
Another problem is greed. There is a short-sighted attitude that “If it doesn’t benefit me directly, I’m against it.” Years ago, I used to drive 50 miles each way to work daily, and though there was a van pool directly to where I worked, I couldn’t use it because my job required that I have a car available, and I was subject to working overtime with little or no notice, but every day I was wishing for subsidized transit just to get some of the traffic off the roads. Instead, I saw constant construction on interstate expansion, from two jammed-up lanes to three jammed-up lanes, etc, to where today there are six jammed-up lanes in some spots.
Well, I’ve ranted enough. I remember my teens in the 50’s in New Orleans, when we, like most
Population density and the transportation system are interrelated. Most areas have at least crude roads, and if more people move in, improved roads and more of them will follow. If it gets dense enough, maybe even mass transit will happen.
I think the problem of traffic and commuting will be solved by just ending commuting, rather than commuting by train. We are quickly becoming a service / information economy. People will just stay home and do their work on the Internet. This nonsense of driving off to work every day will seem like a relic of the horse and buggy era.
Roads don’t pay for themselves and we seem to be alright with that and airlines receive massive subsidies each year, why should public transit have to pay for itself what it gives you is a better quality life, convience, reduced congestion, and reduced societal burden and costs.
Yes, you can find subsidies for everything, but that does not mean that it is equally worthwhile to subsidize everything. On average, the people who pay for highways get a lot of use out of them, and so it is worthwhile to them.
And public transit simply carries more and simply gives you more for your investment it costs a lot less to move people by public transit than it does to move by the same amount roads and highways.
While I can’t speak for the West Coast experience with public transit, I can tell you in the North Jersey area where I come from public transit, and by this I mean trolleys, intererbans, and the like died out purely do to lack of patronage. Prior to World War One all were heavily used by the public, but after the war the automobile came into it’s own and the ridership began to inexorably drop. The Great Depression (no-one had any money) and then World War Two (no-one had any gas) gave the trolleys a bit of a reprieve, but by the late 40’s the handwriting was on the wall.
Mind you, some electric mass transit systems did survive but did so by evolving into another form. The New York and Newark NJ subway systems are a good example.
I can’t blame the auto makers. Henry Ford was no fool, and “The Great Bicycle Craze” of the 1890’s gave him the idea that there was a VERY strong demand for personal transportation. He just came up with a way to capitalize on it.
Look at it this way: When there’s a strong demand for public transportation it’ll come back in a big way. Maybe when the Boomers are too old to drive? Who knows?
For some maybe. They have been saying this will be the future of “work.” Right up there with flying cars like the Jetson’s, IMO.
Many jobs, probably most, can’t be done remotely by computer. But, then those jobs are usually considered to be the type that “Americans won’t do,” so probably don’t count anyway.
If it gives you more for the investment cost than cars and highways do, why don’t people get rid of their cars and ride transit? Why would they spend more than they have to?
because public transit doesn’t simply exist in high enough frequency for most and in enough places. You can’t pull “if it is so good argument why don’t people use it” when people simply aren’t given the choice and it isn’t available. Kinda a dumb argument.