Johnny, we should give silent thanks to Graham Claytor for saving that PS-4. It was his lobbying as VP of Law at the Southern Railway that kept it from going to the scrap heap.
When Mr. Secretary (I call him that because he signed my commission as a Marine Lieutenant in 1975) Claytor was running the Southern he tried like blazes to get a Pacific and have it made over into an “erzatz” PS-4. The closest he got was an Atlanta and West Point locomotive but the owners of same said “No dice!” to an SR paint scheme. It ran in the AW&P scheme while the Southern had it. It was either that or they couldn’t run it at all.
I wonder if the “John Bull” is ever coming out of the museum again? It’s happened before.
i was hoping that in the 90s when the p-42 & variatons came out they could have been styled like the f’s I know that for safety crash regulations certain things had to be done to them but they are sooo close there is
no reason they couldnt have skinned them like an F [:P]
Yes, there’s been discussions in the Forum in the past about how the P-42’s could have been styled like E and F units, or ALCO PAs for that matter, and without much difficulty. The concensus was it could have been done, and with modern crash-worthiness standards too. Well, it wasn’t, it’s not likely to be, so I guess that’s that. Too bad. The P-42’s get the job done, but they look weird.
As mentioned elsewhere, fabricating a bulldog nose is an expensive proposition since it requires a lot of manual labor and body putty to get it right. Alco/GE did better with the flatnose since it has a lot less compound curves in its design.
It is highly unlikely that carbody-type locomotives will return to freight service for most to all of the reasons mentioned in prior postings.
Perhaps, but in that same hypothetical weather situation, it is quite likely that the rungs of the F’s ladder will have a generous coating of ice on them, and it it also just as likely that the side door will be frozen as well.
I’ve climbed enough steps of E’s and F’s over the years and through Chicago’s winters…
That cab style would not meet current FRA crash standards so it’s not allowable on new build locomotives.
Modern freight locomotives are designed to be practical machines and the current cabs are designed with that in mind. Having attractive styling is not a consideration, 99.9% of the public wouldn’t notice anyway and the railroad would be spending money which would produce little more than glowing reviews on railfan sites…
I think if they do come back, they would look like E-units or PAs instead of F-units since Class 1s use 6 axle instead of 4 axle units. Also wouldn’t the PA noses be easier to make and offer more collision protection?
Something I haven’t seen discussed is the footboard arrangement necessary on modern power. Take a look at the evolution of nose access on the ATSF FP-45s (I believe there was a thread on this somewhere in our past…)
I personally don’t think a bulldog nose would look particularly good with a platform, steps, and outside railings out front. Or, for that matter, with an outside-opening door either centered or to one side.
As noted, fabrication method plays a significant part in freight-locomotive cab design, both in practice and in theoretical ‘safe cab’ design. That doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t have curves or attractive industrial design – most current new passenger designs have all kinds of fancy fabrication, [opinion]they just aren’t particularly attractive in a classical sense – often needlessly so [/opinion].
I do happen to like the GE Genesis ‘look’ but I’d have to agree that better transition between nose and bodyside in 3/4 view could have been achieved with a little care.
For passenger use the E-6 slantnose beats the ‘bulldog’ any day of the week, though… even if it is marginally longer.
I would say there are more F7’s on shortlines in the rebuilt form of CF7’s… This, of course, provides more visibility for switching, etc. with all the F7 “guts,” but it’s not the traditional F-unit design we like.
Most modern big power isn’t meant to be run backwards anymore? Tell that to NS, look carefully and you’ll see ditch lights on BOTH ends of shiny new SD70ACEs and ES44ACs, I saw one on a local west of St. Louis, MO not so long ago, long hood lead with half a dozen cars in tow. Some habits die hard, I guess.
Interesting perspective on the aviation front. Yes we do wonder if a plane that doesn’t fly is really a “plane”. I note in the UK they don’t always have the money for planes to fly but they like to start them up and taxi them around. Would that be like having a small fire in the firebox and some smoke and steam exiting at all all the usual places on a steam locomotive? Still, anything “old” has historic value for those who didn’t live through that particular era and lots of fond memories for those of us who did. I’m all for saving things (just ask my wife) and at least cosmetically restoring them, but prefer to see them in operation and I try and donate time or $ where possible to help out with particular projects I like. Remember, its always easy to sit back and dream or complain about why this or that doesn’t get done, but if you make an effort and get and out and do it, it will get done!
Maybe not “F” units as such, but what about cowl type car body’s to protect all that emission control equipment from the elements. It looks from the pictures of new teir 3 and 4 compliant designs, there is a lot of “stuff” cramed in those narrow hoods. Would heat build up be a problem in such close confines?
To Jumper: Yeah, the question “if it doesn’t survive to fly does it really survive at all?” is really a rhetorical one. Most aviation fans are realist enough to know if there’s only one left of any historic aircraft type, or very few of same, the wise thing to due is ground 'em and put them in the care of an aviation museum. Why take chances? Once it’s gone it’s gone for good.
What about CAT/EMD’s new F125 that they are selling 10 of to Metrolink. It has a semi monocoque frame like the original “F” units and a enclosed carbody. Other than that its all new as a high speed passenger locomotive.