Since i’m still in the planning stages, I wont to clear up all this wiring as soon as I can. Ok, my layout will be 10ft. x 20ft. Under control by tmcc, powered by a zw transformer. With two mainlines, each being 60ft. long, how many extra feeders will I need from bus wires? Ok, another question, this is one I never can understand, I send 2 bus wires(both 12 awg) around the layout under the tracks, and one is common, and one is ground(i.e. a and b) around the layout, every 10-15 track sections put on a lockon, tap into both wires, connect the common to the #1 clip, ground to the #2 clip, and continue on, right? I dont need any blocks in the track doing this do I? It seems like i read somewhere that you had to have blocks when using extra lockons. Question #3, I can use 2 small transformers, send commons and grounds as buses, and I can use one for all lighted accessories, and the other for signals, coal loaders, ice depots, switches ect., right? Also, as far as I know, all the accessories will be powered by its own switch, not a tmcc controller.
Check you library for a copy of Peter Riddle’s book, Wiring Your Lionel Layout, Volume 1. It is well illustarted and explains basic toy train electrcity.
Your basic ideas are correct but some of your descriptions/terminology could cause problems down the road. The “U” terminals on the ZW are “common” and these are the return path for electric current. This side of the circuit goes to the outside rails of the lockon. The A,B,C,D terminals on the ZW are the “hot” side and these are used to feed the center rail.
I would strongly suggest color coding to avoid problems and make sure you wire in some fast acting fuses or breakers between the transformer and the tracks. The ZW’s thermal breaker will usually not trip immediately on short circuit like a derailment can cause. Modern electonics are not so forgiving of this type of incident.
“Blocks” were used in conventional control to allow for multiple train control. TMCC accomplishes this with digital command signals. The concept of a block has been morphed into a “Power District”. You assign a power supply to a specific section of track. There are fiber pins that are inserted in the center rail to isolate one block from another. The idea is that you try to ballance the power load on the tracks to match what is really required in a given track block. This is close to what a real electric railroad would do, aka multiple feeds, multiple supplies.
I think the no. 1 clip goes to the inside rail (hot) and the no. 2 wire goes to the outside rails (common or ground). You should have feeders after every switch and every 4 - 6 feet.
I’ve been wiring a 30 x 55 club layout. One tip that really worked for me is to run the bus wires, then connect the bus to the feeds using Scotchlock Wire Taps. They crimp on with a pliers, require no stripping of the wire and if installed correctly create a solid connection to both the Bus and the Feed. Makes for a clean installation. Yes it is important to have a feed both before and after a switch. In our case we soldered the feeds on. Dave
Well I got the common and ground mixed up, I meant hot and commom. So you do have to use insulated pins between additional lockons? Or is that only for multiple train operation in tmcc?
You only use insulating pins when you want to break a section of track for power by a seperate transformer feed. You don’t want to tie two power supplies together.
You say you have two main lines. I will assume for the sake of example that these are totally seperate and you want to run each loop off of a seperate feed. No pins necessary. Now, lets say you want to connect the two loops by a pair of switches to make a cross over. You need to insert an isolating pin in the section of track between the two switches to keep the power sources seperate.
Under pure TMCC you COULD have everything running off of a single tap and no isolation pins as the track is normally at a fixed voltage. So long as your trains don’t pull more current than a single tap can handle (about 180 watts), there won’t be a problem. Some command control enthusiasts will stick one massive power supply with 300-400 watts output and run that to the track (using multiple drops). This is OK so long as nothing goes wrong. 300-400 watts translates to 15-20 amps and that can cause a derailment to arc weld parts to the track. I prefer multiple lower power sources with isolation pins to break the track down into power districts. This is covered in the main TMCC manual (the large format book) supplied with the Command Base/CAB-1 set. You can also download it from www.lionel.com, customer service/owners manuals.
Ok, thanks Chuck, I think I got this cleared up, but let me say it again to make sure. The only place I need insulting blocks is between my crossovers, and only one feed per mainline, right? And would putting that insulating pin in that track between the switches make it so I can hook up tpc’s to both mains to run non command engines on either main?
I am doing the wiring on my layout (when she allows me), anyway, while I fully intend to do Lionel Legacy only, I am wiring in the “Star” fashion suggested by MTH and DCS. What I have done is to have feeds drop every 6 connections (track joints). from there, I run the wire to a breaker block (I am using Cole Hearsy). I have cut the center rail between feed sections so that if a short does occur, I can quickly identify the section and get back to running trains. While the bus wire system will certainly work with TMCC, and perhaps will work with DCS (I think Roy’s club did this), MTH does suggest the “Star Method”. I am leaving the outer rails (common) as uncut to allow for the TMCC signal. I would suggest researching the OGR forum site as it has a specific thread on command control. Many useful ideas, such as having “earth ground” wires between layers and connected to metal bridges, etc. that will affect the TMCC signal. Another good source is the book by Kalmbach called “Command Control”.
So Dennis, you are using bus wires, tapping in and giving feeders to the track every 6 or so track sections, both hot and common feeders, and making a cut in the center rail in bewtween power “blocks”, but not on the outside rail to get tmcc connection?
No Bus for tracks, I am using star wiring. Each pair (power/common) go from fuse block for power, stud for common in a matched pair to each section. I cut the center rail between sections, but do not cut outer rail between sections. I will be using Bus wiring for the accessories/lighting. For my yard and spur lines, I am putting a bank of SPST switches in place that will isolate center rails so that I can park trains while still running others.
But there is nothing wrong with using my original plan, is there? I just wont to avoid and very complex wiring. And to me, my original plan seems pretty simple.
Here is an example so i can see if i’m right, the :'s simulate a insulated power district in the track every 5-10 track sections. The three lines represent the three rails. The /\ represent lockons. The oly thing that is missing is the lockons connecting to the feeder wires from the bus wires. Is this correct? Also, there is no ties in place
:::__________
/_/_/_/_______
Yea, I know its weird, but its the only thing that I could create quick.
TMCC doesn’t care if you have insulating pins in any of the rails. It uses a radio signal that can be inducted/jumped from track section to track section.
DCS prefers ballanced pairs of wires for proper signal propogation. The easiest way to do this is with “star” patterned wiring.
Drops have nothing to do with insulating pins other than you need one trop per insulated block/power district. If you have more than one drop per section it doesn’t matter, just make sure the drops ALL go back to the same power supply[:)]
no i understood your picture. I dont understand the whole wiring from the transformer on down the line. so i am just gonna get some books.i think that will work best for me.
So anybody that knows will please tell me if running two bus wires, one hot and one ground, and tapping into them, and hooking up a lockon to a track section that part of 10 track sections that are islolated by inserting a fibre pin on each of power district ends, and everything will work fine? There is nothing wrong with this, right? Nothing going to happen to my tmcc?
And what kind of breaker should I use, and were should I put it?
Grayson, The idea of “Star wiring” is only in case you ever want to run DCS. With regard to just using Bus lines with TMCC, that is no problem. I would not use lockons though. I would tend to solder to the rails. You can solder a spade connector and wedge it into the underside of the track.
By far, the easiest method is to go with bus wiring and TMCC. While it is certainly possible to power your switches with track power, I am sure most will tell you that you are better off with separate wiring for the switches.
Another item, since TMCC is usually run at 18V, it is better to power your accessories from a separate power source as most accessories are meant to run on 12-14Volts. Also, lights that are rated for 18Volts will last much longer if only powered to 14 Volts. You can use a common from both transormers as long as they are in phase.
