I have received a lot of varying info to use Peco Electrofrogs to make crossovers and need to determine what additional info, experience, etc anyone has had with the different info in 1,2,and 3 below.Does not appear to be code 100 for the new Peco Unifrogs. Switch machines will be the new Walthers and will use to power the frog.
Info received:
With powered frogs, need to gap rails at diverging end and have means of switching frog polarity. Will be using Walthers machines to do that. Further info was gapping all 4 rails at diverging end of a powered frog but maybe only gap rails that diverge from frog.
Then received info that don’t need to isolate all 4, but can’t change frog polarity without isolating both frog point rails if power reaches them from diverging route.
Then received info that gaps needed in frog (point rails) whenever power reaches frog from diverging or main route. Back to 1. above, gapping all 4 rails then would mean no gaps in frog (point rails) here in item 3?
New Walthers code 100 will be used for sidings, etc.
Due to some 86’ cars, I want to use the Peco #8’s for crosovers.
Thanks for any additional info, experience, recommendations, etc you may have.
A key aspect is that Electrofrog turnouts don’t have a separate frog. The point rails are welded together at the tip of the frog. Electrofrog turnouts short out the entire layout by connecting the inner and outer rails at the tip of the frog. That’s the key to understanding how to deal with them.
The second key aspect is these are power routing. The frog is dead until one or other of the points (the other end of the turnout from the point rails) touches one or other of the stock rails. As long as the siding is not powered then no short.
In the “old days” these worked really well for unpowered sidings. For passing sidings you only needed one gap anywhere along the one siding rail (the “inner” rail) assuming you throw both turnouts more or less at the same time. Throwing both turnouts killed power to either the main or the passing siding, as the case may be, which what was needed.
DCC makes all that unworkable unless you isolate both point rails on every Electrofrog when you separately power the track beyond the point rails.
So, no, you don’t need to change frog polarity in part because there is no electrically isolated frog, as there is for every other brand. The Peco frog is isolated only by the power routing aspect of the turnout. You just need to ensure no power can reach the frog from anywhere except the turnout points.
So, all three points you mention are correct, except that points 1 and 2 are a tad misleading because there is no isolated area that could be a separate frog needing polarity control. In a way, when you isolate each point rail you create a very large isolated frog. Polarity control is effected by the turnout points being power routing. No separate polarity control is needed because of the power routing feature.
If you look at a Unifrog turnout the key element of the Electrofrog becomes apparent. A Unifrog is an Electrofrog with a tiny isolated frog right at the point. Turns out maybe that’s too tiny. Th
Let’s see if I have this correct to make the crossover.
1.No powering frog with switch machine.
Insulating joiners at diverging route since it will connect to the diverging route of the other turnout of the crossover which is a separate power district as I have parallel main lines around the layout. Each main line will be a separate power district.
Also install insulated joiners on other 2 rails at diverging end.
Then connect other end rails to flex track with metal rail joiners.
Anyway, you need insulated joiners on the frog rails, you will also need to insulate the diverging route if a separate power district, and you can power the frog if you want.
You can make other modifications if you want to but above is the minimum.
Peco Code 100 are small, medium and large: 24" , 36" and 60" radius. Code 83 comes in frog numbered versions. I expect large would be roughly #8.
Yes, you have the wiring requirements correct. With DCC separate power districts (or not, same either way) require insulating joiners on both rails between the main lines connected by the crossover.That’s still only one insulating joiner between the closure rail of one turnout and the diverging rail (point rail) of the other turnout.
With DC you also need to isolate both diverging rails (the point rail of one turnout connects the stock rail of the other and vice versa). Because of the way crossovers are connected in effect both turnouts are always powered from both directions so the Electrofrog frog connects the inside and outside rails even with power routing.
Power routing prevents shorts until power reaches the frog from the diverging rail direction.