I am just curious and I do not know what condition the CP tracks are in that cross the border or North of the border to Calgary. Would a Chicago to Calgary, AB LD Passenger Train be viable? What about seasonal only (Spring-Summer-Fall)?
Would there be enough ridership? Only reason I ask is it seems Calgary is a fairly pricey destination out of the Twin Cities and Chicago both in the Summer and when I fly the route the planes are filled with tourists. Never flown in the Winter, only in the Summer.
I would presume the train would use an all CP routing from Chicago to Milwaukee, to Twin Cities, to the Border, then onto Calgary, AB.
I am just curious and I do not know what condition the CP tracks are in that cross the border or North of the border to Calgary. Would a Chicago to Calgary, AB LD Passenger Train be viable? What about seasonal only (Spring-Summer-Fall)?
Would there be enough ridership? Only reason I ask is it seems Calgary is a fairly pricey destination out of the Twin Cities and Chicago both in the Summer and when I fly the route the planes are filled with tourists. Never flown in the Winter, only in the Summer.
I would presume the train would use an all CP routing from Chicago to Milwaukee, to Twin Cities, to the Border, then onto Calgary, AB.
[/quote/
Interesting. The Soo Line- CP used to run the Soo Line-Dominion by way of Soo from the TC to Portal, ND then on CP through Calgary to Vancouver.
A quick review of flights shows 2 United Main Line flights and one United Express as well as one WestJet flight per day. Doesn’t seem to be a huge demand.
A quick review of flights shows 2 United Main Line flights and one United Express as well as one WestJet flight per day. Doesn’t seem to be a huge demand.
[/quote]
Yeah, the Soo dropped the service in the mid-60s. From the Twin Cities, there are 4 flights: 2 Delta and 2 WestJet each about 3 hours, from Chicago ~4 hours. It seems unlikely many would want to choose a very long rail trip of ~31 hours from MSP (1955 by train). Maybe it could attract vacationers as a land cruise if it were extended another 4 hours west to Banff and Lake Louise (summers only).
I know Calgary is an important Canadian business center, but what is there for the U S leisure traveller that they can’t get in Denver or Salt Lake City?
Moose Jaw to Calgary, AB is 12 hours by rail on that schedule?
Or am I reading it wrong? It is a little over 6 hours driving time. I wonder if the trip would be faster now vs. then?
So driving the trip is about 18 hours from St. Paul, on that schedule it looks like two overnights vs one. OK so Southwest Chief is 48 hours on the train and two overnights in comparison. That timetable just seems very, very slow from Chicago.
So I am thinking about the sking crowd as well compared to Chicago-Denver not just the Summer tourists.
Roughly Banff is approx 1.75 to 2 hours driving West of Calgary, or at least that is how long it took me to drive it on a primarily 2 lane (one lane each direction) road…which it is most of the way. Their Supercell T-Storms are just as biblical in scale as here in Texas with the hail sometimes but that is another story.
If I remember correctly from all those years ago when I rode the Rocky Mountaineer it was 2 hours from Lake Louise station to Calgary by train as well and the Rocky Mountaineer was a little slower than Amtrak on the flat no grade lines…I think because of those ultra dome cars can’t travel that fast.
Amtrak.com says 43 hours 15 minutes from Chicago to LAX. A Superliner roomette on September 20th for Chicago to LAX will set a passenger back $917. Wow!
A non-stop flight on Southwest leaving Chicago at 9:00 a.m. on September 20th for LAX can be had for $159. A business class seat on United is $333. This is for a mid-day flight. The highest priced business class seat is $655.
If Canada wants to fund it sure. In America, I think we have more important priorities when it comes to connecting to Chicago. How about a faster train from Chicago to Philadelphia (not Byrd Crap?) How about a train from Chicago to Houston so you don’t have to transfer to a bus? How about a single train from Chicago to Florida? How about a train from Chicago to Las Vegas? They get rid of the Florida train and the Vegas train but you can still go to Seattle? Cause I really want to spend two whole days and wind up in Seattle as opposed to Florida or Vegas or California.
You can’t always get what you want. There was a Chicago-Florida train that was discontinued in the late 1970’s due to a slow schedule and lack of ridership. There was briefly a train to Houston that connected with the “Texas Eagle” but ridership was at bus levels. Las Vegas never really had good passenger service even prior to 1971. It was (and is) an intermediate point on the LA&SL line of Union Pacific, which is more oriented to overhead than online service.
Railroads are not like airlines, service from Point A to Point B is not always practicable and don’t forget the intermediate points that an airline doesn’t serve.
But all the things you say about the trains that got canceled you can also say about the crap trains that still exist today like Byrd Crap and the Empire Builder.
If it were to come to pass, wouldn’t it be simpler and faster to split off the Builder at Minot, ND rather than use CP the entire distance? Or maybe even Shelby, MT if the route north from there is viable?
I don’t know why you keep bringing it up. I live in Dallas, there is no market currently for a Dallas to Houston train. Amtrak was smart to drop it.
Pretty sure the HSR proposal will fall apart despite the money Dallas is spending on it. You can’t compete Dallas to Houston when you can buy an air ticket for less than $100 and be there in under an hour, with two major airports to pick from in Dallas alone to depart from. Dallas and Houston both major airline hubs and pretty much each is an unsinkable aircraft carrier with the flights they service. There is no way the Dallas to Houston HSR proposal will ever work because the cost of carrying a passenger that short distance by HSR will be far above what they can charge on ticket prices.
A better proposed city pair would be Omaha-Kansas City, in my opinion.
Likewise, Las Vegas is always going to be a loser as far as rail transport is concerned even from LA direct. The reason being is look at the average stay in Las Vegas…very few people stay there more than a few days at the most. I think you would really have to look hard to find someone that stays there a full week. With a 3-4 night stay being tops, who the hell would eat up a full day taking a train there…and then
HSR should be competitive on short hauls. Dallas to Houston 240 miles. A real HSR should be capable of 2 hours or under. By air takes 1 hour + security + transport to and from airports. $100 (some flights are a bit more) sounds like a money loser for the airlines, but Bluestreak would be a good source on that.
LA to Vegas is only 270 miles, but the mountains would make HSR construction too expensive.
Hard to say what “Philly Amtrak Fan” is talking about here, but since this thread is short - so far - I would guess he is referencing CSSHEGESWICH’s points about discontinued Amtrak trains, " There was a Chicago-Florida train that was discontinued in the late 1970’s due to a slow schedule and lack of ridership. There was briefly a train to Houston that connected with the “Texas Eagle” but ridership was at bus levels. Las Vegas never really had good passenger service even prior to 1971. It was (and is) an intermediate point on the LA&SL line of Union Pacific, which is more oriented to overhead than online service."
With regard the “Byrd Crap,” there is no Amtrak train by this name, so his comments are therefore without merit. Either he is too ignorant to realize there is no Amtrak train by this name, or too ignorant to understand that unless you’re the current president or a member of his administration, others will not take any of your statements seriously when the childishness displayed in namecalling immediately and totally trumps any point you may have been trying to make.
With regard to the same points referencing the Empire Builder, (i.e. slow schedule and lack of ridership), they’re completely invalid. Of all long distance trains operating today with the same endpoints as their pre-Amtrak counterparts, only the eastbound Empire Builder in 2017 h
CMStPnP, why not just cancel the Texas Eagle? Why would anyone take it to San Antonio? Just drive there. Why would anyone take it to Austin? Just drive there. Why would anyone take it to Chicago or St. Louis? Just fly there. Apparently people do take it because some people like options and some people might like not having to drive or deal with crowded highways and either are afraid of or don’t want to deal with the hassles of flying. I’m sure the same issues exist between Dallas and Houston or Los Angeles and Vegas. Sure cars and planes will dominate trains unless trains can get to 200+ mph but as long as you have enough people your third choice can still get you good numbers. I think there should be a national Amtrak system where you can travel from the East Coast to the West Coast by train and I have done it multiple times in my life. Sure it’s faster to fly but I don’t want to and I should have the option not to.
In general long distance trains are not a waste of money, the ones that run hundreds of miles through the middle of nowhere are and still run while better trains like the Broadway Limited get canceled because the worthless ones have friends in Congress are a waste of money. The Empire Builder may have the highest ridership but how much of that ridership is Chicago to Minneapolis? (NARP data shows it is the most popular city pair). There isn’t one relevant stop between Minneapolis and Spokane, WA so the only people on the train between the two stops are those who are either getting on or off at a stop in between (almost no one) or are traveling through (and who would spend that long a train for those destinations or Seattle/Spokane?) You run a train between Chicago and Minneapolis and you’d get a third of the ridership/revenue of the EB for a fourth of the fuel and labor costs. And if anyone here hasn’t figured out what Byrd Crap is… it’s the Cardinal. If nobody lives there and nobody wants to go there, don’t waste our taxpayer money having a train go t
I am sure that the great majority of readers knew what train you were referring to when you gave it a disgusting name. I agree with VerMontanan that the appellation is uncalled for.
MSP gets 120 thousand boardings/alightments per year, but little Whitefish, MT gets 66 thousand, more than half as much, which is pretty good for “almost no one”. You are always going on about bringing back the route of the Broadway Ltd, and the largest intermediate city west of Philly is Pittsburgh. Presently Pitt gets 129 thousand per year, twice as many as Whitefish. However, Pitt gets 2 sets of trains per day, so its average boardings per train is the same as Whitefish. Apparently there was a reason why the Broadway was dropped.
“Philly Amtrak Fan” has been severely chastised on other forums for his myopic “trains for me, but not for thee” mentality. In other words, he advocates robbing others of their scant Amtrak long distance service so that routes that he deems more worthy could get service. Anyone who has this “splitting the child” mentality is NOT a true passenger train advocate. Another of his problems is his ignorance of the Amtrak long distance system. According to some of his previous postings, he has never ridden the Empire Builder, and has additionally little understanding that factors other than online population contribute to ridership.
His most recent posting stating, “the Empire builder may have the highest ridership but how much of that ridership is Chicago to Minneapolis?” and continues, “there isn’t one relevant stop between Minneapolis and Spokane, WA.” While I’m sure that most in the communities between St. Paul (there is no stop in Minneapolis) and Spokane would not consider themselves irrelevant, the facts around ridership on the Empire Builder paint the most accurate figure.
It is true that Chicago to St. Paul is the number 1 “city pair” by ridership. Indeed 4 of the 10 top city pairs by ridership on the Empire Builder are between Chicago and St. Paul inclusive. But when it comes to producing revenue, Chicago to St. Paul is only No. 3 and no other locations between Chicago and St. Paul are included the top 10 (https://www.n