Maybe they come from West Texas to find out what scenery looks like.[(-D]
To my High Speed Republican brother:
After living in Florida for the past 32 years, and working across the Florida peninsula, I find that most of
my Mid-Western visitors prefer the West Coast of Florida, while the East Coast visitors go down the coast
on the Atlantic Ocean side. South Florida is often known as the “6th Borough” of NYC. and during our
‘season’ most auto license tags from out-of-state are NY, NJ, PA, and MA. You see very few Illinois tags.
My marketing info. points out this fact also. It would be nice to consider a private Auto Train operation,
but passenger loads would be light. BWITRAVELLER
The end terminals are all wrong IMHO. As others have posted mid westerners like the west coast of Florida. A southern terminal should be SANFORD or better still WINTER HAVEN / LAKELAND. North terminal needs to be Louisville or Cincinnatti or maybe Indianapolis?
Don’t know if BNSF still offers this service:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/01/prweb98481.htm
Have wondered about southern auto-train terminus being on CSX at Lake City, Fl.? Hop on I-75 South from there? Northern terminus farther north? Louisville is too far south.
I miss the “one seat” ride from Chicago to Florida. Even at freight train speed, it would probably be faster than the circuitous route through Washinton DC with a long layover. Currently, the train to Washington has to run slowly through the scenic mountain areas. My last trip had to be cancelled due to the major snowsorm on the east coast, and I had to fly to Chicago. Going through Atlanta would have avoided all this.
Southern Terminal being at Sanford, you hop on I-4 and go West to the Tampa-Clearwater-St. Petersburg area, go East to Daytona Beach and I-95 access to all the East Coast beach communities, go West into Orlando and get on the Bee Line which provides access to the Southern East Coast beach communities.
The CSX line that Lake City is on, does not handle any passenger service at present and has more than enough freight traffic.
Northern terminal needs to be adjacent to a Interstate and a ‘easy’ day’s drive from the areas major population centers - Louisville fits this bill. Moving the terminal further North would have some people driving North to go South, which, to them would seem counter-intuitive.
Thanks for inviting me to share my thoughts, Highspeed, even though I have absolutely no expertise on this issue.
It does seem to me it is well established that we Americans love our cars. Many of us are willing to go on long, punishing drives that do neither us nor the car any good in order to have our car at our destination. So it does seem to me that the idea of autotrain from the Chicago area to Florida could work. Granted, it would not be as fast as flying but people who drive for long distances are already willing to spend the time. And it would be a much more pleasant way to spend the time than driving.
Of course it is easy for me to have ideas when I don’t have to put up any money to support them. I would expect anyone who does put up money would have to be pretty confident that the idea could be profitable.
A secondary benefit of the existing Auto-Train - reduced highway casualty statistics on I-95 between Lorton and Sanford. The existing train gets stopped one or more times per week with ‘medical emergencies’. I suspect were these individuals actually driving their car as opposed to riding on the Auto-Train they would be showing up on the highway accident statistics.
Would I support the idea? I’d have no reason not to if tax dollars weren’t being used. A more appropriate question is would I use the service? Absolutely not. I live 500 miles from Chicago and my one visit to Florida cured me of ever wanting to visit there again. If I were a snowbird I would go to Arizona like the the snowbirds in my part of the country do. And as others have already pointed out if I wanted to move my vehicle to Florida (Or anywhere else for that matter) while I flew I already have options available that would be faster and, no doubt, cheaper along with being more user friendly in that my car would be deivered where I wanted it as opposed to being delivered to
A much better question would be will the railroads support it? The answer to that question is simple. They would not support it. My railroad would get rid of Amtrak in a heartbeat if we were allowed to do so. Passenger trains jam up the works. They interfere with the flow of trains that actually generate revenue. They can also be a major headache for maintenance forces. Think about it.
If passenger service were such a great thing the public would take advantage of it and the railroads would be fighting each other to provide the service. The glory days of passenger service ended long ago and they’re not coming back. We are a nation in love with the independence of automobiles and the convenience of air travel. Rail passenger is, for most Americans, lacking of independence and is rarely convenient. It’s much easier to drive somewhere or fly and then pick up a rental car.
Pigfarmer1,
I understand what you’re saying about passenger rail’s place in the US, today. In addition, I think we are over-dependent on automobiles. When I think of how much I have spent out of my resources to be able to drive here and there at my convenience, I tend to shudder. We’re taking the same path regarding cell phone communication, too.
I think there is technology existing that can play a significant role in everyday transportation that doesn’t require as much infrastructure as autos do that can address many of the disadvantages of passenger rail and autos, but to date it isn’t commercialized.
Right now, I’m planning a business trip where it will be too far to drive (18 hours - too much wear & tear on the driver [:)] ), and the timing and cost of available flights are not right. And I’m not going to bet that American won’t cancel. Amtrak is the only reasonable option in timing and cost. Fortunately, I love trains.
The Auto-train business model is based upon the Distribution Center type concept rather than the ultimate origin & destination of individual passengers.
The Northern terminal would be attracting traffic from all the large Mid-Western Cities - Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus and Indianapolis as well as Louisville and maybe St. Louis. The Southern terminal would be attracting traffic from the Mid and Southern Florida Peninsula. Both the Northern and Southern terminals need to be within a ‘easy’ day’s drive from their customers ultimate origin and destination.
The customer base would be those travellers that routinely use 2 or 3 ‘full’ travel days to make the trip from the Mid-West to Florida recreation and resort areas.
What I have described is the easy part - the hard part is putting $$$$ in the business plan, as well as getting operating capacity over whatever rail route is chosen to execute the business plan.
jclass, I hear you about the work related travel. I work for the railroad and if we’re working on the west coast and it’s the middle of winter I’m driving my personal vehicle 1500-1700 miles one way because we aren’t allowed to fly unless we pay for it ourselves. I love how they’re called rest days when I’m driving 1600 miles to get home…
I think that a service of this nature could be successful from sometime in October through April-ish. We drove from Chicagoland to Tampa Bay in two days last fall and I really don’t want to experience that stress again. I know some who drive it in a single haul, which is insane. Staying in motion through the night would help out a lot, even if the average speed is slower. If the fare can be competitive with the cost of auto fuel plus one night’s hotel stay, it could be attractive. At higher prices, perhaps not so.
What would not be attractive would be a most-of-a-day drive to Louisville followed by a 2-day train ride to Sanford, then a drive to Tampa Bay. The departure point needs to be northward, especially for snowbirds from MN and WI.
Having just worked in Chicago for four months I can’t see how any trip would be stressful once you get out of the Chicago area. [:D]
What is being assumed that only 1 - 50 car Auto train would be needed. In today’s climate establishing a clientel may actually grow beyound anyone’s expectations. Start where you can consolidate the traffic and if your riders fill the train then place another terminal wheresome originate from. Note that AMTRAK’s autp train now sells out many days during peak travel and may eventually call for another terminal. that is when and if ANTRAK equipment becomes available. Your option could start by combining at Louisville once traffic is great enough?
I’m not so sure that this would work. I don’t see daily service. Maybe once a week service until there’s a greater demand for this service.
Leave the northern terminal (Louisville, Cincy, Indy) on a Thursday afternoon / evening, overnight to Sanford, FL arriving sometime Friday afternoon if possible. Return trip north could be on Sunday afternoon / evening arriving at the northern terminal on a Monday afternoon.
Unless they are spending a majority of the winter down south, people tend to go on vacation for about a week at a time. Also, once a week service would allow for that 1 - 50 car train.
CC
True Florida ‘Snowbirds’, spend most of the Winter in Florida. The Summer Florida visitors are those that spend a week or two.
As I recall, a Trains article maybe three or four years back about Amtrak’s auto-train pointed out that the train was regularly attracting four or five distinct types of passengers, not just snowbirds.
Your - and my - tax dollars routinely go to support the federal-aid highway system and the airport-airway system. So why do you apply a different standard to passenger trains? The total subsidy since Amtrak was begun in 1971, now 41+ years - is less than the annual subsidy we provide for highways. While we’re at it, how about detailing the list of government-sponsored activities that operate at a profit with no taxpayer subsidies. My copy of the Constitution is silent on the issue of requiring that government must break even or better yet, generate a profit on anything it does. I don’t think you can find anything.
I’ve always wanted an Atlantic to Pacific Auto-Train. San Diego to Lorton sounds good to me.