All, I guess Im in a pickle. I Love the steam era, and like early diesel. Is there a location where I can find out the years I should be modeling if I want to have both on my layout? In addition which locomotives I should be displaying? I am currently working on an N Scale Layout that measures 3x4.
Mark,
I’m modeling the early 40s in HO so I can understand you predicament. Here’s a couple of handy sites for you as far as early diesel information is concerned:
- Yard Limit
- The Diesel Shop
ANY of the steam locomotives should work for you. The majority of them were made between the years 1910-1940. Diesels really took off after WWII. And steam was on it’s way out by the end of the 50s.
Mark, the one issue that you WILL run into with N-scale is the lack of availability of steam locomotives. With early diesel you should be a little better off. See what you can find in switchers. Someone with more knowledge of N-scale products would know.
Will you be modeling any particular line or year?
Tom
The recent Model Railroader special issue on modeling the '50s has a list of when a number of railroads completed their dieselization. It’s a great issue, and has a lot of other good info as well.
In general, the 40s through the mid 50s is a good bet. I model the New Haven in '48. They were “fully” dieselized by '52, but I’ve seen pictures of steam running even a few years later, often for fan trains. The New Haven was the second major road to be fully dieselized, so other railroads would be '53 or later. I’ve seen references to some small lines sometimes ran steam even into the early 60’s. They could get steam locomotives at reasonable prices from the larger railroads when they were purchasing new diesels.
However, many regions of the New Haven dieselized very quickly. For example, the Berkshire line (Danbury, CT to Pittsfield, MA) was completely dieselized in 1947-8 when they purchased ALCO RS-2s specifically for that purpose. So even the region within a specific railroad can make a difference.
If you’re not concerned about being that specific, then I would aim for about 1945-1952 and work from there. That’s one of the reasons the 40s and 50s are so popular, since you can run steam and diesels. The mid 50’s lets you run the last of the steam, and the second generation diesels.
Randy
Hi Marc,
Welcome to the forum. As the other guys suggested, you would need to know the location and the system that you like to model. I’m with you. I love to see a mixture of steam and diesels.
The exact year is not too much of a problem. The things that will date your layout, apart from the rolling stock, are vehicles and posters or advertisements. Vehicles can be older han the setting date of course, but not newer. One thing that would be good to give a date to your layout would be a movie theatre with a poster up for a particular movie. But then you need to be a movie buff to know the year.
The answer to your question is to pick your system then Google that with a few other words that would turn up the history. That’s what I would try anyway. Good luck. [:D]
I am a bit luckier. In my home region steam was running right through the 60s. On the way out certainly,[:(] but a bit of steam running until about 1972.[(-D]
You can expand those years a little with a shortline or regional railroad that typically bought steam from the majors after they dieselized.
Canadian roads, as usual, were years behind the Americans. Full dieselization of CPR and CNR came about 1959-1960. CPR did theirs by division from the west to the east, but passenger trains got them first.
Hi David,
I would not be too downhearted about the Canadians being slower to oust steam engines. From what you say they were 10 years or more “ahead” of us in Australia.[(-D]
What’s more, the picture below is the first diesel class on NSW metals. Where do you think it was produced? Montreal works of Alco (I think). Certain it was in Canada because these locos were nicknamed Canadians. No prizes for guessing what it is. The cab was changed a little to fit the loading gauge, three axle bogies (A-1-A sadly) and old fashioned buffers, but any North American railfan would recognise what it is based on.
John: not downhearted at all. We got 10 more years of steam than some places. Usually we wait (read: don’t budget any money) until we see if the changes are worth doing. Unfortunately, the diesel promoters got a foot in.
MLW (Montreal locomotive works) wasn’t part of Alco, IIRC. It did license the designs from them, and kept going after Alco quit. When I worked on GE’s pension plan, they still had an MLW division in the employee records.
David,
Thanks for that info. Now that I see it MLW does ring a bell.
Your railway management was not alone in being conservative. At the same time the 40 Class Canadians were being put into service, the AD60 Garratts were also going into service. The rail bosses were not really convinced these diesel things would work.
Sorry guys, not my layout. [:(] Wish it was.[;)] And still waiting for my AD60 - should get it about end of this month or early October. [:P]
My n-scale layout is circa 1956 for a number of reasons:
[1] The Pennsy is being modeled and PRR’s full dieselization occurred in 1957. This permits mostly first generation and the beginning of second generation diesel power with some steam such as the K-4. There will be an interchange with the Baltimore & Ohio. Fallen flags were not yet fallen.
[2] Traction is also being modeled. 1956 is still viable for prototype PCC, Brill, box motor, etc.
[3] How about an "I Like Ike!’ billboard? You know with a quick glance it must be either the 1952 or 1956 election year. Gas stations can be Esso, Atlantic, etc. I just discovered Greyhound Bus Scenicruisers were first manufactured in 1954. Scenery can be easily targeted to 1956.
[4] Many lineside structures, road crossings, signals, and towers were still in heavy use in 1956.
P.S.: If you specify your Class I railroad prototype(s) => My magazine archives will very lkely have the full dieselization year to reference for you.
Tstage: I havent really thought of a particular line…I guess thats where I should start. All: I will try to get the Modeling 50s N scale is very tough for Steam…I know precision should be coming out with some nice stufff but till then… I hope you guys dont mind me asking constantly…Im pretty new
Some lines ran PCC cars for years. Pittsburgh had 4 left until recently. They were all retired within the past 5-6 years, after literally hauling millions of passengers over millions of miles. They’ve all been preserved–one by the South Hills Car Shop, one by a former school-turned-artist shop, and I think the others went to museums.
BTW, didn’t N&W hold onto their steam engines until 1959 or '60? I know they got rid of them pretty late.
Marc,
I am surprised that the idea that finding steam locs for N scale is tough is prevalent. Looking at the advertisements in the MR mag I received a week or so ago there seem to be a few manufacturers advertising N steam. However, I have to admit that I am an HO man so have not gone shopping for any N scale steam.
As far as asking questions, fill yer boots. That is the fun, trying to help people. The truth is none of us here knows anything, but we pretend to know everything, so treat with suspicion any advice you get.[swg][:-^]
Nah, not true. I never cease to be impressed by the wealth of knowledge available from guys who post on this forum. It’s only me who knows nuthin.[:(]
As for steam power, there are some very good choices out there.
The Kato 2-8-2 Mikado is the gold standard and is very hard to beat. Next in quality would probably be the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 Connie. With Bachmann, quality control can be spotty, so try before you buy. And their standard line might be bast steered clear of. The also have a Bachmann Spectrum Light Mountain that can be very good. I have two in service on my RR and they are great, though I’ve heard others have had problems. Again, try before you buy. The Life-Like 2-8-4 Berkshire is a fine loco, though it is a bear to install DCC into. You have to tear the loco apart entirely and then mill the frame. Not for the faint of heart! Athearn/MDC makes a great old time 2-8-0 and MDC made a great 2-6-0, but these would be very old loco’s by the timeframe of your intended layout. Not out of the question, since some roads did not retire loco’s often, but very old. The Virginia & Truckee used 19th century steam loco’s into the 1960’s I think! Also, you could use them for a museum setup if you wanted. Model Power is making some excellent looking steamers, but they, with the exception of the Pacific, don’t have traction tires, so pulling power is quite limited. They are supposed to make a second run of the 4-4-0 and the 2-6-0 that was just released, and the new ones are supposed to have the traction tires, so I’m waiting to get those. Atlas has had 2 steamers on the market in the last few years, but both of them are not what you’re after probably. There’s the shay, which is a great little logging loco, and the 2-6-0 that is another 19th century loco. Good little loco, but very old timey looking. Con-Cor makes some good loco’s, but with the old man retiring, parts have been a big problem, and they really haven’t come up with a new design in a long time. Intermountain makes some really good loco’s from what I hear, though
This “smidgen” of dieselization reference may help one plan and write a history, for a free-lanced and/or prototype model railroad layout by looking at a USA geographic region.
Dieselization positions from some Class I railroads…
1905 - the first successful internal-combustion gas-electric railcar runs on Union Pacific in Nebraska.
1905 - the first experimental diesel locomotive delivered to Southern Pacific.
1939 - Texas-Mexican is the first Class I railroad to go all-diesel.
1947 - Pennsylvania commissions diesel orders of $15 million.
1950 - Illinois Central President, Wayne A Johnston, tells the Chicago Journal of Commerce that his coal-hauling road “will not dieselize its freight services for a long time, if ever.”
1953 - first year (since 1828) Class I railroads do not order any steam engines.
1955 - N&W President, R.H. Smith: This does not mean we have changed our view that our modern roller-bearing coal-burning steam locomotives can handle the major part of our traffic economically, nor does it mean that our interest in new and better types of coal-burning locomotives has diminished in any way."
1955 - Chesapeake & Ohio, Milwaukee Road, Santa Fe, and Soo Line => completly dieselized railroads briefly revive steam service out of mothballs.
Norfolk & Western => coal-fired vs. diesel attitude…
1951 - N&W Roanoke Shops commissions (15) S-1a 080 and (6) Y-6b 2-8-8-2.
1952 - N&W rejects (1) EMD F7 A-B-B-A after 18 days of demo testing.
1953 - N&W Roanoke Shops finishes its last steam => S-1a 0-8-0 #244.
1953 - N&W tests & rejects (1) coal-fired 4500hp C-C+C-C steam-turbine electric.
1955 - N&W receives (4) EMD GP9 and (4) Alco RS3.
1956 - N&W orders (58) EMD GP9 and (25) Alco RS11.
1960 - N&W dieselization is completed.
Some Class I railroads dieselization completion years…
1939 - Texas-Mexican
1949 - Chicago, Ind
Well to my knowledge its been difficult finding steam that is N Scale and DCC ready. I have not yet dared to master the DCC intalstion if its not plug and play. If you do have any idea where N Scale steam with DCC ready/Compatible exist…please direct me…It would be a huge ghelp!
WOW!! That is going to help tremendously! One day I hope to have the knowledge you all possess
One thing that gets a lot of newer folks to the hobby is the subtle difference between DCC ready and DCC compatable. Be careful when listening for these terms.
DCC compatable usually means that the frame is split electrically and the motor is isolated from the frame. What they don’t tell you about this is that you’ll have to solder in the decoder yourself and you might have to alter the weights in the loco, or even in some cases, mill the frame out to get the decoder to fit. Other times you can move it to the tender if it’s steam.
DCC ready usually means that the frame is split and the motor isolated, plus, there is a drop-in light board replacement that adds the DCC capability or there is a plug-in for a decoder already there for you.
It’s a very subtle thing, and you have to watch for it if you want to know what you’re getting into up front.
The link I gave you in my last post on this thread gives instruction mostly for the compatable type, since this are a bit tougher.
Wanna see a real tough one? Look at the Life-Like Berkshire install!
Philip,
Wadayer mean “newer folks”? I have been playing around with trains for nigh on 50 years and it “gets me” too! Of course we have not had DCC all that time. [;)]
Just the other day I had to ring a supplier to ask him what he meant by DCC Ready. It was what I thought it meant - as you defined in your post. The thing that I was unaware of, and it just shows that I am a dummy, is that the place to plug in the decoder is covered by what looks like a mini PCB from the factory. I was looking for a sort of a plug on the end of a cable, not just receptacles on a PCB.
Now I know, but a bit of unecessary anxiety because the instructions were inadequate. Am I the only dummy who did not know that the place to plug in a decoder would be hidden?[D)]
Let me just put it this way,…how do you think I was able to post what I did? I’ve been had plenty of times! And you’re right, those plugs can be very cleverly disguised!