Yes, I’ve got a 225+ page build thread, titled The Carolina Sandhills Lines in HO Scale, over on therailwire.net that I started in 2017.
Thanks,
DFF
It says that the domain railwire.net is for sale.
He didn’t do the link magic correctly – you need the ‘the’ in the URL:
You’ll have to click on it or paste it yourself; it won’t ‘verify’ a page call from this site.
Thanks. Got there. However, searching for the build topic is a little beyond my patience level. However, I agree that the kudzu scene was impressive.
Fixed. It’s located at Verifying….
DFF
I doubt the manufacturers who are just providing DCC Ready and full DCC with Sound locos are really missing out on many sales because some folks would like DCC without sound. My gut says that the cost difference to the manufacturer between a sound decoder and speaker vs a non sound decoder and no speaker is minimal. Probably a lot smaller amount of savings than you or I would see at full retail prices for the decoders and speakers. So how much would the manufacturer actually save? And hence how much savings could they really pass on to the end customers? And how much more hassle is it to stock one more option? We already have a problem where everything that is really nice in the industry seems to need a preorder or your chances of getting one are slim. That’s a whole other subject but a far bigger problem, I think. Expecting manufacturers to provide 3 instead of 2 options I think would just make that issue even worse. Again, just my gut based on my experience with manufacturers in other industries completely unrelated to model railroading. So take it with an appropriate grain of salt.
As an audio professional, I kind of agree about the quality of sound. And for a while I avoided sound in locomotives as well. However I do think the newer products are better. And once I actually played around with them, they are fun. I will say I’m more of a fan of the horn/whistle and bell sounds than all the chugging and engine noise. And the sound designer in me can easily hear the loops in the audio and perceive what I would call the machine gun effect of a lot of the sounds. But I would second what Dave Foxx said, first turn down the over all volume from the defaults by a lot. Typically, I think half to 1/3rd of the maximum value for sound levels is a lot more appropriate, unless you’re in a very large layout room, like a club layout or something. And then I like to tweak the volumes of the various sounds as well. It’s annoying that often the chugging and engine sounds are as loud or even louder than the whistle or horn. That’s unrealistic no matter how close or far away from the locomotive you, except maybe inside the cab I would guess. (I’ve only had a few cab rides and they were all decades ago, long before I was informed enough to pay attention to the way the sound changed) Anyway, you could always just turn off everything except the horn and bell.
And even as the end user I don’t see having the sound and turning it off as that much of a waste. At most the cost difference between DCC ready and DCC with Sound is typically $100, maybe a bit more these days as prices have gone up. So, what should DCC without Sound cost? $50 more? Is it really worth it? Lots of folks like the sound, so while I never really think about purchases this way myself, one thing you could keep in mind is, if you want to sell it later, more folks will probably want the DCC with sound.
I totally agree.
That’s exactly what I want on my layout, I’m set in the deep south and kudzu rules. Of course, to be completely accurate, I don’t think that invasive kudzu appeared down here until well after the steam age. I’m not going to worry about that too much, it looks so great that I simply have to do some of that in places on my layout.
Very, very well put, I have to say. Especially about the sound levels of everything overwhelming the horn or the Whistle. Back in the Jurassic when I was a young railfan, we had total access to everything on the railroad back home except the freight house that we never got in. We got up in cabs a few times and later on I had several really notable Cab rides both steam and diesel. So I know exactly how these various sound volumes oughta be. Wimpy whistles and horns just aren’t realistic.
I have Soundtraxx TSU2-2 in just about everything and I’m very happy with it. My own settings I use are master volume CV 128 set around 100 or a little higher, and the Whistle CV 129 set around 90 or a little lower, whichever doesn’t distort. Then from there, you start turning the chuff and the bell and all of that even lower. I do find it that at that level, you need to turn up the cylinder cocks and the blowdown a little bit, which at default volume setting aren’t really quite loud enough. One thing I heard somewhere was don’t turn any individual sound to a setting higher than the master volume or you’ll get distortion.
There are enough YouTube videos of both steam and diesel engines passing so that you can get an idea of the proper volume levels of each sound. But I’m here to say the default settings are never realistic, if you want realism, you have to work on them a little bit.
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They also don’t have what I’m looking for.
Kato does have a “KOBO” line which has all the handrails and grabs installed at the factory - but they cost quite a bit more. At least Kato does have the holes already there, you don’t have to drill holes with a pin vise. On a decorated engine, it helps to clear the paint out of the hole with a small drillbit or - what I use - the point of a No.5 blade spun around a time or two.
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As DFF mentioned, turning the sound down is good - he also touches on one of my pet peeves about the horn. On most diesel sound decoders, the diesel “rumble” motor sound, the horn, and the bell are all the same volume. I lived next to a railroad for many years, and I can say for certain what when a train is coming at you down the line, you can hear the horn long before you hear the sound of the engine itself. I generally put the horn to 100%, engine rumble to around 60%, and the bell around 30%, then adjust the master volume until it all sounds right.
I find that, for my single or two person operating sessions on small layouts, horn and bell are very necessary sounds to “add time”, and interest, to moves
That said, I think if i was making some big, primarily mainline layout in something like N scale, a lot of my roster would be fine without sound, besides units used for locals or industry service.
All that said, I do think that the majority of locomotive sales in this day and age will be for people who either want DC or DCC+Sound - the fact that some DC locomotives are coming with speakers pre-installed speaks to that.
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Sometimes I’m able to do that through ebay…
Locomotives without sound is a lot cheaper. You can add the decoder of your choice, program it, and that’s it. Sound, while a nice feature is too expensive.
If you buy three locomotives with DCC capability but no decoder, all three can easily have decoders installed and consisted to run on one number. I’ve done it.
Quite true, plus, you can shop around at RR flea markets or online and find deals on older (i.e. 2000-2015) engines that look and run well - and are easily converted to DCC - but may not have the space due to their design to fit in a speaker and enclosure.
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Verily, verily I say unto thee. Bewarest thou of the pig in the poke known as the used model railroad locomotive. Knowest thou not of the travails the lamb has suffered in its previous life, from dropping off the table to being a weapon with which to assail the younger brother. Seek thou rather the path of righteousness of new purchases often with warranties to avoid the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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Perhaps in ye travels, thou hast come across the term “new old stock”, meaning an engine of ancient times that has never been sold or put on the track. These too can sometimes appear at train shows, when a hobby merchant has sold them for cheap to a reseller. I’ve seen engines that were 15-20 years old still sitting on a hobby shop shelf (if you’re coming to the National Narrow Gauge convention in Bloomington MN this fall, be sure to go to Scale Model Supplies in St. Paul for example).
There are machines that can re- shrink wrap products to look like they’ve never been opened.
Those are usually pretty easy to tell, the ones I’ve seen have been from someone who are in the business of re-selling items and they only seal in the inner box and contents, so they can remove the outer box to display the contents at train shows. Plus most sellers aren’t frauds, they make clear whether an item is used or just has been on the shelf a long time somewhere.
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