A real trip comparison

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Data from Greyhound Ticket Center Schedules, Amtrack Reservations, experience from numerous auto trips.

Marysville CA to San Luis Obispo CA (Highway distance approximately 350 miles)

Home to AMTRAK bus stop or Greyhound bus station (not included in totals) approx 3 miles to AMTRAK, 5 miles to Greyhound. Driving time 5-10 min but no place to leave car. Public transit bus more than 1/2 hour including walk to bus stop nearest to home.

AMTRAK (station to station)

Depart Marysville 2:55PM <correction 9:20AM>on AMTRAK bus
Arrive Sacramento 10:20AM 1-Hr
Layover 1-Hr 50-Min
Depart Sacramento 12:10PM on Capitols
Arrive San Jose 3:20PM 3-Hr 10-Min
Layover 0-Hr 05-Min
Depart San Jose 3:25PM AMTRAK bus
Arive San Luis Obispo 7:10PM 3-HR 45-Min

Total 9Hr-50-Min

Alternative AMTRAK trip leaves Marysville at 2:55PM, uses the San Jaquin from Sacramento to Hanford, bus Hanford to SLO. Total 9Hr-20-Min

Greyhound (station to station) two transfers

Depart Marysville 1:00PM
Arrive San Luis Obispo the next day 1:40AM

Total 12-Hr 40-Min

Altermative Greyhound trip Departs 9:20PM, Arrives 1:00PM the next day Total 15Hr 40-Min

Station to real destination Time ?

Auto (door to door)

Depart (when I want)
Arrive less than 6 hours to 7 hours latter (Depends upon if and for how long I stop somwhere)

2

I am suspecting you expect no delays on the A/trak route. Also Mapquest says Marysville to SLO is only 322 miles & takes 5 hrs 22 minutes to drive it. Which is way less then time then A/trak takes. Curious at 22 MPG @ $2.35 a gallon you would use 14.6 gallons MVille/SLO for a total of $34.31 in gas used. How much does AT charge? [:o)][:)][:p]

http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=&taddr=&csz=San+Luis+Obispo+CA&country=us&tcsz=marysville+ca&tcountry=us

[quote]
Originally posted by DSchmitt

3

[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

I am suspecting you expect no delays on the A/trak route. Also Mapquest says Marysville to SLO is only 322 miles & takes 5 hrs 22 minutes to drive it. Which is way less then time then A/trak takes. Curious at 22 MPG @ $2.35 a gallon you would use 14.6 gallons MVille/SLO for a total of $34.31 in gas used. How much does AT charge? [:o)][:)][:p]

http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=&taddr=&csz=San+Luis+Obispo+CA&country=us&tcsz=marysville+ca&tcountry=us

I think Mapquest is a little over optimistic, although they may be right about the actual shortest Highway distance. The best time I ever made is about 5 hr 35 min with one quick gas stop.

AMTRAK fare $43.00 via San Jose, $48.00 via Hanford

4

So you are quibbling just over 13 minutes? In any case car was just a little less then 1/2 then via A/trak. Also if you are family of 4 just think of the savings via car vs A/trak [:o)][:)][:p]

[quote]
Originally posted by DSchmitt

[quote]
Originally posted by spbed
[

5

Most of the time I’d end up driving. However, I would note that the true cost of the car trip is not just the cost of the gas. My company, which is pretty typical, reimburses the use of a personal car at 40.5 cents per mile. Using this as the basis to estimate the cost of the trip by car yields a cost of $130.40 (322 * .405)

6

I was hoping this thread would generate more interest, particuarly from the strident anti-auto people who want to force everyone into mass transit. The “If only gas prices would go to $5.00 a gallon than everyone would take thje train” types. The people who advocate high gas takes to force people out of their cars.

The point is that without the auto, a real trip in America, would be much more difficult and time consuming. I don’t want to live in an America where my travel choices would be so restricted.

This is true of shorter trips too:
The travel time for a bus between Marysville and Sacramento is about 50 minutes which is only a few minutes more than for an auto. But my real trip is not station (or bus stop) to station (or bus stop) So in reality the overall bus trip could take two hours or more if my destination is not downtown Sacramento.

By the way while 1 NB and 1 SB AMTRAK train runs runs through Marysville, the stop was discontinued several years ago leaving our only AMTRAK service two buses a day. This was not a great loss since the train times were so inconvienent that there were vitually no passengers arriving/departing here.

It is not possible to design a rail (or bus) transportation system that provides any where near the overall level of service proivded by the automobile.

Western Europe has a much more extensive passenger rail system and population distribution and densities somewhat suited to the use of that system. The also have high gasolene taxes and other restritions on auto use and ownership, but even there the number of people who find the auto a more convinent way to make the trips they want is increasing.

It is sometimes argued that the auto is unfairly subsidized by the governent because the goverment builds and operates the Highway system. Previously I posted data from the Victoria Transportation Policy Institute that showed that the in the USA, total cost per passenger mile for the aut

7

Don,
Have only had time to scan the link you provided. Would like to comment though that the auto has made possible, and is a reflection of random spatial development. That’s compared to other forms of transportation.

I’m not anti-auto, but I think the road system has been overbuilt for future needs (when all space needs for the auto are included). Look at the amount of space needed for garaging vehicles for example. Sometimes more square feet for that than for living space.

I don’t see it that people really want to travel en masse that much. Maybe out of the mix will come ways of traveling that become convenient and affordable by causing and reflecting a different arrangement of building developments. (Someone commented on a different thread how he no longer needs to travel to a skyscraper to get his work done as long as the staff remains connected electronically).

8

G’day, Y’all,
I take a car every day to work even though I hate driving. There never has been and never will be a transit system which will allow someone to live in some little off-the-beaten-path OTBP community on one side of a city and commute to some OTBP industrial park on the other so the car is here to stay. However, if you live where you can commute to work, you will be able to sell a low mileage car whereas if you drive every day, you will be getting much less for a well-worn car. You can take your pick. Personally, my favorite commute was getting on an Atlanta MARTA bus a half block from my house and taking it to Lindberg Station where I took the train to the state of Georgia’s twin towers office building then rode the elevator to my office. On the way home everything was reversed except that the bus driver would let me off at my driveway which was on his route. Not everyone has that luck - I don’t either, anymore - but it was much better than fighting traffic in Atlanta.
My objection to car driving is that everyone can’t fit into Atlanta. There are not enough roads, and never will be even if Wendell Cox’s idea of emminent domaining all the necessary homes for a grid of main roads was done. And where are you going to put all those cars once they get downtown? There aren’t enough parking spaces except for the $10 a day lots near the trade center. DSchmitt would you be willing to pay $10 a day to park? Someone has to take the train for it all to work. It may not be you, but it might have to be your neighbor.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

9

Mapquest is incurably optimistic; how often can one AVERAGE 60 mph on the Interstate highways, what with construction, 55 mph zones, overcrowding – and nobody should deadhead for five hours without some kind of rest break or “pit stop,” in my opinion. Much more useful for long-distance trips are the more realistic estimations of the Rand McNally Road Atlas and literature put out by the Triple-A. (Not all AAA members realize that road maps, routings and guide books are all FREE to the member, unlimited!)

In Chicago Mapquest shows trips taking 22 mins. that take more like 40 if it’s all surface routes (and since the freeway system was designed only to funnel people downtown, we’re all about taking surface routes here). Mapquest’s estimates of scheduling may work at 3:00 a.m., but even then I’d not be sure of a holiday weekend.

10

Yes, trains aren’t fast. And both Marysville and San Luis Obispo aren’t very large cities either. However, an elderly lady or man, for example, my father, who is 88 and has problems with his legs, would rather take the train over a bus, and since he has sold his car, and with his legs as they are, can’t drive anymore…

Fortunately, my father who lives in Lawrence, Kansas, can travel by train to where I live in Dallas, Texas. Lucky for my father, he can catch the Southwest Chief early in the morning and arrive in Dallas the next afternoon, with one night in a sleeper on the Texas Eagle. Of course, with Amtrak’s lack of routes, he has to travel in the wrong direction to Chicago to get to Dallas…

The nearest practical airport for my father is Kansas City, an hour plus drive’s away. He doesn’t like aircraft, as they are not really wheelchair friendly…and neither is a bus… A train isn’t much better either, but you can park a wheelchair in the lower section of a Superliner car…and there is a wheelchair/handicap room downstairs too.

The real truth of the matter is that whether one flies or drives a long distance, a train is a preferrable way to travel for handicapped people, and one must use up a day anyway…

Of course, it would be nice to have a HSR network built in America with more frequency due to the higher speeds. A HSR route from Chicago to Dallas and the rest of Texas would be a high priority on any HSR network linking the large populations of Texas with the Midwest and eventually to the east coast. Instead of consuming a day or two to travel the distance, a person in a wheelchair could arrive in less than a day’s travel…

For those opposed to train travel, and HSR, ask yourself why the Europeans and Japanese love their rail systems, use them, and would be alarmed if their HSR trains were dropped by their governments?

There is no reason to give up on trains, there is every reason to follow their example and i

11

From Marysville to SLO, AMTRAK is definately perferable to the bus. But notice that the travel time is 4hr-45min bus, 3hr-10min train and 1hr-55min layover. Plus there is the time to get two/from the station at each end of the trip and there are only two “trains” a day…

In my van I can make it door to door in in less than 2hr more than just the bus portion of the AMTRAK trip alone, and I can carry 16 feet of NTRAK modules[8D], two weeks of clothing, my girlfriend[:)] and my dog[:D] at no extra cost.

If all trips originated and ended very close to a station and their was no need to transfer (ie train/train, or bus/bus) or change mode (ie bus/train, car /bus, or car/train) then public transit can potentially work well.

For commuter situations in metropolalition areas public transit provides decent service to large numbers of people, but this does not mean that the majority of auto commuters at any given point on a parallel highway can use it.

12

I have not seen any strident anti-auto people on this website. I have seen people who believe in more balance. And I would not be shouting for hybrid or equivalent technology if I thought the auto was going to go the way of the dodo. I think cars are great. I used to subscibe to Road and Track and at one time participated in auto-crosses in Massachusetts. But I think streetcars and long distance passenger trains and commuter trains and high speed corridor trains and trolleybuses and regular diesel buses and hybrid buses and mutli-mode light rail cars and multi-mode buses, and…boats, all have their place. It is Mineta and the highway people that seem to be the bigots to me by neglecting LAND USE in figuring subsidies for various passenger modes of transportation.

Now, as to your trip. You obviously enjoy driving. I don’t blame you. When I was younger I usually did too. But now I like to read a magazine, sip some drinks and eat a snack, enjoy the scenery, meet new friends, and relax on a trip. I don’t need the excercise of driving. Does one have to enjoy driving and own an automobile to a first class citizen of the country? If so, that is a form of totalitarianism by the auto-oil-highway lobby.

And I would find the enjoyment of the Amtrak trip worth the extra time.

13

dave

I agree a ballanced system is needed. I am really not anti-train or bus.

My point is that most for most “real trips”, not all, the automobile on the highway is superior to the other land modes (it is also superior to air). The traveler can schedule the trip for when it is convient, easily transport more property, and arrive at their destination quicker. That is the real reason for the decline in the rail mode, not some oil-highway lobby compiracy as I have seen some on this board assert.

Yes there is a highway lobby, but I don’t believe that their motives are evil. In the overall picture, I don’t think the oil companies care where they sell their product.

Any rail system that provided even close to the level of service to the traveler that the auto does would cost more to build and maintain require more energy to operate.

14

It is evil when it lies to the American public. And it has lied. Fuel Cell Hydrogen research is not any kind of step to USA Energy Independence. Hybrid technology for autos and buses and trucks and railway electrification and the kind of locomotive GE is building (but also any efficient freight service the railroads provide with existing diesels) are all real practical steps that can get the USA energy independence in a matter of a few years. They don’t want energy independence because that would reduce oil profits. And they are completely blind to the money chain that puts oil profit money into terrorists hands:

Hezbola is a legal operation in Euorope thanks to Chirac, and it and Hamas are legal in Saudi Arabia and do cooperate and trains with El Quada.

Bush is finally going to have to decide if he wants to continue to push his very false and destructive energy and transportation packages or if he really wants success in Iraq.

The two are absolutely incompatible.