You knew this was comming when William Ford of the Ford Motor Car Company let it leak that he wanted to see Michigan Central Station a rail passenger station in part again at some point in the future. Not sure yet how serious a proposal this is or if Amtrak is just floating a trial balloon here. We’ll see. Curious if it does go through how they will set this up with the current corridor stretching past the MC Station cut-off in Detroit. I think the Chicago to Toronto Corridor might also be a good candidate for an overnight train as well.
Sounds like a good idea. But, did passenger trains use the Detroit-Windsor tunnel? Does it connect to the MC station? I would take that train- the 401 is so boring on that long stretch between London and Windsor. People fall asleep from boredom and crash and die on that road.
Yes, CP trains came into Detroit through the MC tunnel, and came to the MC station. There were through trains between Chicago and Toronto. The CP train crews came into Detroit, but the CP engine crews came only to Windsor because the engines were changed there (from steam or diesel to electric or the reverse).
In 1969, I rode from New York City to Chicago through Detroit.
It sounds like a great idea. Back in the day, the Wolverine was a fast, premium (possibly All-Pullman?) MC/NYC train, departing from Central Station in Chicago.
Great idea to have direct Toronto-Chicago service, but TSA security theatre will probably sabotage it. The other part is connectivity beyond those points. In more recent times, when Chicago-Toronto was a day train, VIA cleverly had the overnight Montreal-Toronto train (before it was eliminated) arrive after the Chicago train left, and the Canadian portion used a slower turkey trail route through Guelph and Stratford.
Why can’t the US ICE and Canadian folks take a lesson from how the Europeans handled borders on trains before the EU? Have agents board in Detroit and make the rounds before the next stop (perhaps eliminate the Windsor stop?). Reverse the process westbound, having the US agents board at the last Canadian stop prior to MI. Passengers boarding there or Detroit could be pre-cleared. Immigration at most airports here and abroad handle this process with far more passengers quickly and smoothly.
I took Toronto-Chicago in 2004 but thru Port Huron not Detroit. Too many security concerns with the tunnel so they stopped the thru the tunnel service. At least that’s the story. Toronto-New York dosen’t seem to be a problem. No border tunnel but a big bridge.
That’s not the Red Ensign National Flag… it’s the flag of the Province of Ontario, which is similiar.
AMTK 344 leads Maple Leaf changing crews before heading across the border to New York City. May 1981
This through VIA/Amtrak train began operation April 26, 1981 over CN
and replaced the VIA service (RDC) over CPR/TH&B via Fort Erie and
Black Rock to Exchange Street in Buffalo.
A big problem is that for a couple of decades the Wolverine has bypassed the MC depot and tunnel enterance, to go over a beltline to serve the northern suburbs of Detroit. Since Michigan would still have to subsidize their portion of the train, I doubt they would divert funds to a train route toward Canada that might not attract as many riders as ride to the end of the present route in the Detroit area suburbs.
Yes you would have to entice many of the new generations to live downtown in condos. I understand that is the plan with young urban type employment in the yet to be re-finished Michigan Central RR Station. For now the folks live out in the 'burbs and that is the route of the Wolverine.
Also the CASO is gone and ain’t comin’ back. Of course there are other routes but they are busy pieces of railroad. I’m sure it can be done in if the will is there.
As to customs in Port Huron, my wife and I traveled from Toronto to Chicago in 1997–we were asked one question, “You two hitched?”\
About five years ago, when I arrived in Vancouver, I was asked how long I would be stayng; I do nor remember any (to me) unusual questions when we arrived in Vancouver in 2009. Coming back, I so not remember any interrogation by US customs.
Regarding capacity between Winsor and Toronto, there is no problem, because the through trains would simply replace the appropriate Toronto - Winsor VIA schedules, or rather just extend those schedules to Detroit or even Chicago.
I think the border is the hangup. Airlines get people across the border quickly, but those people must go through Xray machines, magnetic scanners looking for metal, have their bags gone through and inspected. Stand in line a couple hours prior to boarding.
On the train, I always have ticket in hand before I go. I can get to the station 10 minutes before the train, walk right on it, bring my uninspected luggage with me. I think it would be difficult for the conductors to accomplish all that riding between near-border stops.
As in some countries and trains (China, the Eurostar), bags can be scanned where passengers board. Passports are all that need to be checked in crossing.
When the Toronto-Chicago went through the tunnel into the US custom agents were brought over from the bridge and they boarded the train and checked everyone one by one. They arrested and detained a young Asian women in my car not to far from where I was sitting.
I had no trouble but watched out the window as the young lady was escorted into a waiting vehicle with cuffs on.
Went on to Chicago, stayed two nights and on to Flagstaff. Roomette, great meals, met lots of people. Separated smoking room in the Superliner Baggage Car, can’t do that any more, met a lot more fun people. Great conversations. Always wondered about that gal though.
If one of the exizting daytime Chi. - Det. trains is selected as the day train to Toronto, it could still terminate at the existing Amtrak suburban station, with an across-the-platfrom connection to the Detroit - Toronto train at the Ford-Micigan-Central Station. The night train would run through, stopping only at F-MC, with a bus to and from the suburban station.
I really oppose using any funds or Amtrak equipment for a Detroit - Toronto train. An extra assistant conductor for expanded train set DET - CHI and for CHI maintenance and cleaning requires money. We have been told that VIA is also short of Equipment so it would probably be Amtrak equipment.
The funds and equipment needs to be useful for more Amtrak service in the USA. I will admit that Amtrak already had 3 services to Canada but that mainly serves US residents. DET - Toronto will be mainly Canada.
Now if some one can provide the equipment and fund outside of Amtrak equipment that is a different possibility. .
Windsor to Toronto is a popular corridor with like 5-6 trains daily. VIA Rail Canada has ordered new corridor equipment from Siemens just like the Midwest HSR compact has ($989 million order for Siemens just for this Corridor by VIA Rail).
The Michigan service trains would draw from the Midwest HSR equipment pool which is steadily being added to as each state steps up and contributes to that pool via funding. So it is NOT “Amtrak” Equipment it is “Amtrak Midwest” Equipment and will be painted as such and funded by the Midwest compact and not by Amtrak. Even better than the equipment between Canada and the U.S. on this line being 100% compatible, they will also share a pool of spare parts and can be fixed and/or maintained by VIA Rail in Canada or Amtrak in Chicago.
It is quite honestly one of those perfect marriages between two governmental systems. Pretty much Amtrak is just the contracted operator of the equipment. Even the track Chicago to Detroit is being upgraded and maintained primarily by the State of Michigan…so not a big hit to Amtraks current budget. In fact I would not be surprised if the contract operations were profitable to Amtrak in 3-4 years time while the states still cover the subsidy.
Dave, no that would not happen. Current Detroit to suburban route passes the cutoff to MC Station about 5 miles West and then curves away to the North and onto the suburbs. In order for your cross platform transfer to take place at MC station the train would have to travel East for 5 miles then back West for 5 miles and then North. Seriously doubt Amtrak will set something like that up.
So your going to have a train that serves Detroit and then Toronto and skips the Northern Suburbs (no big deal in my opinion and yes Michigan will still fund it). If passengers want to take the train to Toronto they will have to transfer in Dearborn, Michigan or at the New Center Detroit Station after traveling South for a bit from the suburbs and into Detroit. Second option of course is continue with the current route but extend it to Port Huron and use the old crossing into Canada, then there would be no split. However, that would take a lot more money and the train schedule would take a beating as well.
