I recently found a old Amtrak booklet/vacation book from 2001 in the booklet were many new routes. What happened to these ideas?
New york-Dallas Crescent star
Chicago-Des Moines
Boston-Miami
Los Vegas-Los Angeles
Skyline Connection New York-Chicago
My understanding is that Congress put expansion (new routes) on hold while Amtrak sorts things out in a quest to boost cost recovery, effiiciency, etc.
Increasing service on existing routes is evidently ok, though, as they have done some train frequency adjustments.
Some of those routes were based on Amtrak’s ability to get revenue from express and roadrailer service on those routes.
I believe a lot of these routes got put on hold from the economic woes after September 11. Recent ridership growth on the Crescent may yet result in further research into the Crescent Star though.
Amtrak needs other order of Viewliner Sleeping, Coach, and New Diners. If amtrak wants to put any new train they need new cars Folks. Like 500 to 1000 new cars.[:D]
LA to Vegas was the Desert Wind (trains 35 &36), alias the “crapshooter”…people preferred to drive LA to Lost Wages… (Demoted to 3 days a week and few rode it east of Vegas)
Rolled the dice in '97 and lost…now served by bus[:(]
Saw the train at LAUPT, Fullerton and San Bernardino in the late1980’s, early '90’s. Frequently very late westbound and empty in either direction…
I rode the Las Vegas train. It wasn’t discontinued because “it ran empty.” That’s a frequent slur hurled against Amtrak by opponents.
If it appeared light near LA, it’s because more people ride to/from the intermediate points.
The train I was on, in a February, had a large crowd board/ deboard in Vegas.
The train wasn’t eliminated because of ridership or revenue.
It was discontinued because Amtrak management at the time in its infinite wisdom determined cutting routes would save money. Management again was wrong.
The lost ridership, from the lost connectivity of this train and others that were cut, hurt more than the cost of running any particular train.
I actually got to ride that train from Vegas to Denver back in the mid 80’s. Those were the days of the mid night meet, when the LA, San Francisco, and Portland sections were combined for the trip to Chicago. Passengers were required to stay on the train while the switching was done.
I hadn’t realized that the train had crapped out until a few months ago when it came up in a discussion here on the forum.[:I][:(][:O][
][#oops]
I saw an interesting statistic on a link posted in another topic here. Amtrak’s total rail route miles haven’t really changed much since 1975. Here’s the link.
http://www.narprail.org/amstat.htm
There seems to be some disagreement as to the cause of the demise of the Desert Wind. Is it possible that all of UP’s merger activity had something to do with it. UP was not one of the original signers when Amtrak was created back in 1971. I think UP would like nothing better if Amtrak would stay off their rails all together.
Part of the Desert Wind’s problems came after it went less-than-daily. (I rode it when it was daily…in '81, '86 and '89. It had decent passenger loads but was not full).
Those Mercer consultants that Amtrak hired in the 90s came up with some screwy setup where the train ran quad-weekly or tri-weekly…the schedule became too impractical for all but the most casual traveler. The Las Vegas “station” was at Union Plaza, now just “the Plaza” (no more UP ownership). In 2000, the inside hallways still had the “Amtrak station” painted signs
Driving on I-15 was faster (4-5 hrs vs 7) but in holiday time (New Years) the reverse would be true. That I-15 gets clogged on holiday weekends.
There was a bit of hype about getting the LA-Las Vegas portion of the line going again around 2000, and Auto Club even re-drew the RR line onto its maps, but train service never came to be.
Even in the absence of the Congressional mandate against adding new routes, I doubt that Amtrak would be trying to add new long distance routes. It seems to me that even if cash from any source was available for start-up, adding routes would be very risky.
Amtrak’s latest 5 year plan continues the focus on bringing the present system to a state of good repair, but adds a section on the status of short haul, corridor plans being work on by individual and multiple state organizations. All things considered, a substantial better case can be made for the need for the shorthaul services.
The Desert Wind WAS a popular route, when it was daily. It helped make the CZ a better train. Imagine how much more popular today’s CZ would be if it had the connections it had when the CZ split in SLC for SEA and LA.
It survived the 1979 cuts and served as a vital link, as did the PIONEER.
It was cut only because of funding and that stupid Mercer report, not due to ridership.
We shouldn’t repeat slurs against Amtrak. Loose lips sink trains.
That’s not necessarily true. The LD trains generate more ticket and passengers per mile revenue than any corridor. A person travelling from Omaha to SAC, for example, is more likely to spend $300-1000 on one trip v. a $52 Kansas City - St. Louis RT.
There are more costs, of course, for LD trains but they aren’t weak as some know-it-all railroaders like to believe.
A substantial “better case” for short distance trains would be STATE funding, much as local highways should be funded by state and local entities v. federal funding of major routes and Interstates.
A more substantial case can be made for improving funding and services of BOTH systems. A well-connected nation with short and LD trains can better serve the needs of the traveling public. Not anemic funding that keeps trains like the SUNSET running TRI-WEAKLY and state legislative ambivalence that prevents regional services from running let alone expanding (MICH, ORE, MO).
So what? MOST people prefer to drive than to fly or take a bus. Most trips are taken by car. That means nothing.
Discontinuing train service does result in lower ridership. What else would happen when people could only ride on select days. Doesn’t make it easy to take a weekend trip when the train only departs on Sunday, Tuesday or Thursday, as the Sunset does in some cities.
Did you go on board and do a head count to determine it was empty on your isolated visits? Did you see how many boarded or deboarded further up the line?
Was this in February or mid-week during the summer?
I fly on planes that often have light loads on Tuesday< Wednesda and Thursdays. Doesn’t mean they’re not important.
Big deal if it’s faster to drive. A train and a personal car that usually carries only one person are apples and oranges. Most drivers don’t stop and take on passengers en route, as do trains.
If you don’t want that hassle drive your car on that super highway that was incidently, funded by federal dollars. It was also built in the 1960s. Highway technology was much more advanced and allowed for faster speeds on mountains than the builders of the UP line.
Most train travelers I meet say they think train travel is easier than cross-country driving.
Conversley, a single airplane could never in anyone’s wildest dreams accomodate the 160 or more possible trip combinations the Calif. Zephyr and the Desert Wind can make. (i.e.
I don’t think Amtrak alone should bare the burden of international travel between Canada and the U.S. Via rail should operate into the U.S particularly between Toronto and Buffalo, Toronto and Chicago, Vancouver and Seatle, Montreal and New York and Winnapeg to Chicago. If both Amtrak operate 50% each to serve the demand where applicable, than both our countries won’t have to pay as much for highway service customs service. Similar to the airport, I believe the train station should have a customs check for passenger service that travel in between countries. For example Amtrak Acela Express departs Montreal after being checked by both Canadian and U.S customs officers in Montreal and the train runs at high-speed across the border next stop New York Penn. Visa-versa. Train masters would half to advise all passengers to come a couple of hours before hand but as long as you keep them in a lounge or some place of comfort, passengers should object too much. Anybody have any comments?
…More routes haven’t been added for one important reason…Money…! More equipment is needed to set up additional routes and the lack of money prevents that.
There certaintly is other reasons but Amtrak always is short of money for Capitol equipment. So if that is ever provided, we may see more routes added and better scheduling on present routes. With present people in Washington, that will not happen.
Acela Express runs from D.C. to Boston. Is it the Acela Regional service that runs to Montreal?
I don’t think so but it would make sense if they did. There is alot of electric lines about I have been told and VIA train engines are not allowed into the station so they have to turn on a wye and back into the station. I would imagine it would be due to the fumes of the diesel so it sound like electric would be welcome if not from the Acela than from regular service from an AEM7.
Ohlemeier
Basicly, we are in agreement. Perhaps I should have said “somewhat” rather than “substantial”. My thinking is that a good regional routes, even with top speed no more than 100 MPH, could often beat highway drive times. That to me suggest such routes are a better place to put transportation dollars. At least for now.
Looking at maps of routes the are at least a little bit beyond the dream stage, there might also be a benefit to the running times of long distance trains. What happens if the 8-900 mile trip gets done in 14 hours. 5pm departure, 9am arrival? Even the business traveler might like that.
Any way , from where we are now, it’s going to be a long row to hoe.
Jay
Des Moines has the tracks downtown but I dont think the city saw a use for Amtrak coming through the downtown area. It wold be a whole lot easier than going down to Osceola.
It would be nice if Acela Express ran into Montreal. It doesn’t. It would also be nice if US Customs cleared the southbound Adirondack in motion; it doesn’t – you have to wait, stopped, at the US border post in upstate New York for about an hour (more or less… often more) while they make their way through the train (Canadian customs board in the US and check the train in motion, so there’s much less delay). While there are some electrified lines in the Montreal area (Kevin!!! help!!! what’s electric?), none go anywhere near the US border – and the only lines to the US border in the US have never been electrified, so it has to be diesel. Which is not to say it couldn’t be fast; if could. The service which runs New York - Montreal is called the Adirondack; runs on CSX to just west of Albany, then CP Rail to Montreal.
As to adding new routes, the bottom line is indeed money: who’s to pay? With the politicos falling all over themselves to declare that someone else should, doesn’t look good. There is money needed for track upgrades; money needed for station