On 12-2-10 BNSF issued General Notice 938 which reads in part:
The following “North American Cab” locomotives are not suitable for lead or
(crew) deadhead service:
BNSF 9330-9399
NS 2649-2778
CSXT 4831-4850
UP 8309-8620
KCS 3997-3999
KCS 4030-4315
KCS 8600-8629
MRL 4300-4315
FEC 100-103
CN 8000-8024
And you got this information from what reliable source?
How many SD70ACEs have you ridden in?
Actually several railroads have banned the SD70’s to lead due to bad welds in cabs.
Crews and railroads do not trust integrety of the cabs.
there is even one other model involved.
One other railroad is CSX.
How many have you ridden in Ed?
Is this an absolute prohibition, such that if SD70ACe’s are the only units available, the train doesn’t ‘start’ / is cancelled or held until other power is available ? Or just a strong preference - “Use other units to lead whenever available ?”
Procedurally, how is this being implemented ? Timetable, General Rules, Bulletin, Memo from the Motive Power Bureau to the engine servicing facilities, etc. ?
Is one of those railroads UP??? If they’re one of the railroads that banned SD70s on the point, then why did they paint them in heritage Colors?
With the SD70ACe’s being Train Control equipped engines CSX is using them as leaders on the I-95 corridor trains that must traverse the RF&P between DC & Richmond where Train Control leaders are required.
Three, they came in on a ferterlizer train for Mosaic…they load up and kick pretty good, but stop like a garbage truck…I like the 70M better, it kicks great and stops great.
We took the train out to Mosaic and spotted the plant with them, my engineer did not like how they shoved against a minimum brake set, he said he could not tell when the slack was all bunched in, and they didnt seem to set their independent brakes up as a trio, but each one by itself instead.
We took them back to north yard and stayed on them to finish our switching…they ride ok, but overall just dont seem to be the quality I expect from EMD.
So, Coborn, how many?
And besides the modelers club, / Historical group, what railroad do you work for?
Is it a Class 1, Class 2 or a Class 3?
And lastly, where did you get your information?
Was it a safety bulletin, general order, terminal order, what?
Because I have never known any Class 1 to give a hoot in a holler about the cormfort or ride quality for road crews…as long as the toiliet flushes, the heater sorta works and the lights all come on they could care less how it rides.
Be nice. Take it easy on the foamers. [:)]
There’s a reasons they are known as “Thundercabs”.
I’ve ridden on plenty of those rattletraps. Just the issues with the cab doors popping open on their own should be enough to ban them from being leaders.
So what is causing this problem, and why is it occurring with just these cabs?
Maybe a faulty design or a bad batch of something. Does anyone know which units (by number or builder number) this affects? That may give clues.
Here in California, UP SD70ACe’s lead all the time.
The over 1400 UP SD70M units are the super rattletraps!
I don’t know anything about this issue, but from what I read, it sounds like the isolated cab was intended to cut down on noise. One source says:
“The analysis was used to identify standing wave resonances in the cab acoustic cavity and make modifications to the structure so that structural mode shapes do not correspond to the acoustical cavity mode shapes.”
Maybe they over thought the problem and came up with a cab design that was hard to build without rattles.
Oh yea, am I in a modelers club? I wasn’t aware. No. I am in a historical society? No. I dont know why you are being such a jerk about this. I never said it was set in stone, I merely said this is what I had heard about the PRE-isolated cab SD70ACe and M-2’s.
Well here you go investigator Ed, this is where I got it from: http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19921&p=166450#p166450
This sounds like the tail gate on a 1960 rattlin’ Rambler American station wagon I had as a kid.
New tie rods and ball joints this is not. Being ignorant myself of the problem in question, does anybody have any idea what it would take to fix. Does anybody have any idea what costs would be involved.
Even as a conductor, my gripes with the SD70M-2s are as follows (some of these may be a RR-specific issue, so all may not apply to all roads):
Angle cock under the frame right near the “poop chute”.
Toilet system in the area between the interior front cab doors - making it a tight fit when you’re trying to carry your grip in.
That toilet system always stinks.
Interior car door many times won’t shut
Terlet room door is cheap plastic and warps easy. Also won’t stay shut at times.
Cheap plastic interior that is prone to squeaking and rattling
Vertical windows have awful glare - and the big dash area makes it hard to clean the insides of them.
The air vents break easy, and are in annoying spots when they do break.
Too much vibration in the cabs. (high-pitched whiny vibration)
Delayed independent. Not as much of an issue for the conductor, but it can be a pain those rare times you need to spot something precisely.
I don’t think the interior lights have a dimmer. That is real annoying.
Exterior doors have a habit of popping open at speed.
Now there are some positives:
Big sliding windows are easy to clean.
Rear windows are a nice size.
When you get 5 or 6 of these beasts together, it is an impressive sight.
I’ve never had a problem with the SD70m engines. I know some guys I work with complain more about the rattling noise from cab components on the SD70ACe, and I guess they do a bit more than others. But I’ve had GE (desk top controls) that have had some good rattle to them too.
I’ve also had cab doors pop open, but on both EMD and GE engines. I’ve never kept a record of which is worse. A conductor asked me recently if I noticed some of the EMD engines assembled in Mexico are worse for the rattle issue than others. I hadn’t, he had I guess. Most of the time it’s just a minor annoyance, nothing to get too worked up over.
I would say, it seems if an EMD is going to have issues, they come with them while GE ones seem to age into theirs after a few years. I don’t know if it’s design, cheaper components, or cheaper manufacturing processes.
Jeff
Of course we also have cabs quiet enough that we can complain about things like squeaking panels.
That says a lot, too.