BNSF vs UP

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Not wanting to annoy the UP fans who were graciousness enough to post to my UP topic, I present these facts. Fair or unfair, it contributes to public perception. Perhaps, as some on this forum have said, that public opinion of a railroad doesn’t matter (I disagree but that’s another topic).

I took Amtrak California #714 from Oakland to Bakersfield yesterday and when we got onto BNSF tracks I began noticing a curious phenomenon: BNSF freights at a standstill. It then dawned on me that they were taking a siding for us. We must have passed eight BNSF freights that were pulled over for us. The only time we took a siding or came to a stop was for #11 at Martinez or two northbound San Joaquins.

Returning same day on #703 to Sacramento, this string of luck began to fizzle. I still saw BNSF freights taking a siding for us, but two times we took a siding for them.

As soon as we reached Stockton, our Conductor came over the intercom:

“Folks we have left the BNSF Railway and are now on Union Pacific (pause) Hoo-wee! We’re now having to wait for a freight ahead uf us.”

I was surprised to hear the Conductor take a dig at UP (most probably did not understand). As I got off in Stockton, I asked him whether my eyes were correct: that BNSF had given us priority and that as soon as we entered UP track, we were shunted aside.

The Conductor’s friendly face hardened a bit–almost as if he had remembered some Amtrak California memo (“Please do not criticize Union Pacific to passengers, that does not help things.”').

“Sometimes” he answered to both of my questions.

Imagine if all Class Is gave Amtrak’s intercity trains (not many in the grand scheme) priority. As Louis Armstrong sang “What a wonderful world this would be…”

PS–Side note, it was GLORIOUS to be on BNSF track with Warbonnets, Yellowbonnets, Cascade Green, Heritage I, Heritage II, NS run-throughs, ex-LMX, and Montana Rail Link all in evidence.

2

Well thats UP for ya.:wink:

A year ago when they were replacing the CP bridge in Lacrosse CP rerouted its Amtrak trains on the BNSF…BNSF parked all the freights,stack trains,Z-trains on the sidings while the Amtrak trains just flew by.

I thought that was nice since the trains were reroute trains.I’ve seen other railroads just side all the reroute trains for hours to let their own trains by first…selfish,selfish,selfish;)

3

I think that UP’s top priority right now is reducing the congestion.

4

Do you know what your posted is FACT or is that just your assumptions[?][?][?]

[quote]
Originally posted by BNSF4ever

5

I can only speak from my experience. My wife and I took the empire builder last month from Milwaukee to Seattle (and back). It was my observation that BNSF put most of their freights in the siding for us both ways. The only exception to that was when we were near Seattle, where we had to wait for a couple of freights to clear the station area.

On the CPRail portion of the trip, I observed freight trains wating in sidings for #8 to pass.

We took the Southwest Chief east bound from LA to Chicago 2 years ago. I did not observe any delays from UP feight trains. In fact, we arrived in Chicago ON TIME.

I have read all the horror stories about late trains, and I guess I’ve been lucky.

6

Why should UP give Amtrak the top priority, if they make more money running freights than running Amtrak. This is why they cut passenger service in the first place, now you want to force them to lose money. Now if Amtrack had a better inscentive ($$$).
James[C):-)]

7

Yes facts. If I saw one or two freights at a standstill I might not think much of it. But I saw this time and again.

UP has no incentive for giving Amtrak higher priority.

However, Amtrak was formed at a time when the government still regulated the railroads. I am surprised that some language was not put in the National Rail Passenger Act that guaranteed Amtrak priority. What was in it for the railroads? Those that joined Amtrak (for a fee, yes), were immediately freed from money losing passenger trains.

Again, we’re not talking a huge number of passenger trains. But the act is written, what’s done is done and it appears Amtrak’s western intercity trains are at the mercy of the freight railroads.

8

Probably because it’s an all BNSF route - ex AT&SF from LA to just west of Galesburg, then ex CB&Q to Chicago (nice run too, although the only time I’ve been the whole distance was pre-BNSF, so it was AT&SF routing all the way to Chicago)

Tony

9

I could be wrong but I belive Amtrak does have financial incentives for on time performance. I have noticed that BNSF does a much better job of giving priority to Amtrak. On the other hand UP treats them quite poorly, especialy on there busy Sunset route.

10

I hate to say it but with UP business first, playtime…Later.

Dustin

11

I knew that pre merger that BN put high priority on passenger traffic, to the point of having high priority freight traffic go into the hole. Since the merger I think they’ve kept the same attitude.

I like the UP, but it seems they’ve taken an SP attitude towards passenger service.

12

on the handful of trips i’ve made on the southwest chief they’ve all been pretty smooth. if it was delayed it was as a result of amtrak, not the host railroad. but i can’t contribute much to this, as i’ve only rode the southwest chief and none others.

one thing that stood out to me though was the ride quality. on the ex-SF from arizona to galesburg it was rough as hell. when we crossed over to the ex-BN it was smooooth as glass.

13

My Amtrak experience on the Texas Eagle has been just opposite – smooth track on UP and rough on BSNF. The only delays on either were for maintence projects.

dd

14

used to be crack passenger trains had priority over any other class of train.
generally the train priorities went
1st class passenger/2nd class pasenger/mail/1st class scheduled freight, 2nd/3rd class freights/extra - peddle freights with low priority a nd if there were arguements, the lower class train was to take siding to let the higher class pass.
and eastbound or westbound would have priority over the opposing directing…
this helps make operations organized and without arguements.

now what…

15

Crack passenger trains brought in a lot of money back then.

16

Priority of trains by class disappeared when operation by timetable and train order was superseded by other methods.
In fairness to UP, delays on the Sunset Route are caused by a lack of capacity, not by a lack of will. After all, UP is moving to double-track this line.

17

Interesting. Back before Amtrak, UP did a creditable job of running its passenger trains, and the Milwaukee did a pretty good job of handling the UP trains on its tracks, after the Northwestern fell down on the job because of too many bad track slow orders. But it was the SP that was the problem, but not as bad as the UP is now. But the SP did well with the Coast Daylight, possibly because not much freight went over the Coast Line. I never rode the Sunset until Amtrak ran it, and it was a about an hour or two late into LA from New Orleans if my memory is correct. Interesting trip when I was working on the Garden Grove church: Panama or City of New Orleans (whatever Amtrak called it at the time) and then the Sunset to LA, and the Super or Soutwest Chief back to Chicago. I think I had to ride coach LA to Chicago (Aurora, then Downers Grove on a suburban), because sleepers were all sold out or to save the client money, but I felt less couped up then I have felt on 7-hour airplane trips. There was always the lounge car or the diner to visit. The time of the trip can be placed by the Chicago - New Orleans train using heritage equipment converted to head-end power, the Sunset using Superliner 1, and the Chief Superliner sleepers and El Cap coaches. Can anyone date the trip definitely? I do not particularly remember massive delays anywhere on the trip, and no really terrible track conditions, although the IC main line was not as smooth as I had remembered from the best days of the Panama Limited and the King’s dinner, and names of passengers on the sleeping car room doors. And the service on the Chief was good, but not quite the Super of old.

18

Really if you think about it, the long distance Amtrak stuff should be third in priority because it is more of a leisure ride then a commuter run. Commuter traffic should be first either Amtrak commuter or Metrolink type then Z class intermodal and then Amtrak long distance service.

19

That’s basically what I’ve been telling people who go from Chi to the West Coast: Your Amtrak trip is a “land cruise” so don’t expect the priority of the top-class intermodals or the various Cal. commuter trains. Expect to be two to four hours late. Don’t tell your relatives to meet you at San Diego – CALL them from L.A.! And that sort of thing.

20

Good point. As such that is why it is usually late.