It looks like a fire started while unloading LPG from a tank car in Lincoln, CA.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2011/08/train-propane-c.html
FD personnel are closer to the car than I would like to see them … while the are doing the right thing in trying to keep the car cool with water and let the contents burn off…if they don’t keep the car cool enough and there is a explosion - they’re toast!
I also suspect that the cameraman is where he really shouldn’t be. Could those hoses be trained on the tank car and held in that position while a proper evacuation is made?
There doesn’t seem to be any flame impingement on the shell itself - a key factor in BLEVE’s. That in and of itself greatly reduces (but doesn’t eliminate) the danger in this case.
Anywhere in the immediate area is dangerous, however it appears that they are using unmanned monitors to cool the car. The worst areas are off the ends of the car. Ends of BLEVE’d cars have been known to travel 3500’ and more.
I’m betting the car eventually stopped venting, the fire went out, then everyone picked and went home.
FD may have gone home after the fire was out…the railroaders (and their contractors) went to work to clear the site and build track for the resumption of operations.
True that.
This is the Kingman Arizona situation. It. will be first real test of long ago mandated thermal protection. The fact that the car had not failed by the time the newsies got there is encouraging but the risk of tank failure will continue as long as there is flaming discharge, which could be days. The issue is NOT internal pressure, it is heat on the tank steel that weakens the tank to the point that it fails.
I am former SP Hazmat Control Officer and would not stay as close to it as they are. FD did right in setting up unmanned monitors to protect an evacuation, but now that the evacuation is complete they are placing themselves at risk for no reward.
Mac McCulloch
Notes from Second Day of Situation:
Was watching TV this Am (Wednesday 08/24) and there was an item about this continuing situation Lincoln,Ca.
linked here for latest article(day2) from Sacramento Bee:
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2011/08/tanker-continue.html.
"Tanker continues to burn in Lincoln as new fears surface"
[Video linked in article is same from first article.] Article: 08/24/2011
(By Bill Lindelof - Updated: 7:09 am (Pacific time (?)
FTA:'…Oil and gas blaze firefighting experts from Texas have arrived at the scene of a still-burning propane tank car in Lincoln as new concerns surfaced about the rail car coming apart, resulting in a possible explosion.
The arrival of special team from Houston, whose company name was not immediately available, coincides this morning with signs that the tanker’s structural integrity is being weakened. The intense blaze has burned for about 18 hours, deteriorating the sides of the rail car and raising the possibility that an explosion could be touched off in an area where other propane is stored.
“That is a concern to us,” said Berlant. "We will have more information later this morning about the condition of the car…"
So I would guess that ‘The fat lady has not sung yet’, and apparently the tank car is doing as it was des
Any idea how UP is handling the possible closing of their old SP route?? How are they detouring or are they detouring?
s stated it appears to be burning from the safety valve. As long as the safety valve opend the fire will burn off the LPG. BLEVE’s occur when there is an external fire and the safety valve stays shut until the pressure is so great that the car blows aprt and the expanding gas catches fire in a giant fire ball.
Goldberg,
Your statement about the safey valve functionioning and violent rupture of the tank is absolutely FATALY wrong as demonstrated at Kingman AZ.
Mac
Not to mention Oneonta and Crescent City.
Late word is that they will be attempting to “hot tap” the tanker so they can remove the product.
Mac, when I saw the photographs that showed they may have been unloading the car when the fire started, I wondered if the cause was the same as the Kingman fire.
The article said, “Fire suppression workers will weld a hose to the propane tank and drain the liquid propane into the pond.” That is one dangerous job.
In Kingman the car took off like a rocket sled when it exploded. What concerns me is a camera shot of a fire truck stationed on the street directly beyond the end of the railroad spur. If the same thing happens in Lincoln, the fire truck looks to be right in the car’s trajectory.
John Timm
Eric,
Continuing as is this could go on for days. Railroad wants to get back in business, response people are now bored, the car may of may not fail under pressure at any moment, and folks want to go back home. The safest thing to do now is keep the tank cool as they are now doing.
Rather than draining hot liquid via a hot tap, which is a high risk move and requires a pond to hold the liquid, I would cut two 6-8 inch diameter holes in the vapor space with explosives. After a relatively short time this would reduce the pressure in the tank to vey little over atmospheric. The railroad and the evacuees could come back and the fire guys could disengage and let it burn until it is over.
Two practical problems with explosives; finding someone with the expertise to do this and the fact that you need to cut through shell, thermal protection, and the tank, preferably in one shot. They do not want to shoot it with anything that puts a projectile through the tank. The L&N did that in Florida. When the projectile hit the far wall the car(s) failed uner pressure which is the result they are trying to prevent.
Mac
Thursday AM 08/25/2011:
Looks like the ‘fat lady has sung’ and the fire burned itself out, sometime after midniight.
Here is a link to the story for today with pictures:
“Threat of propane blast ends in California”
By JUDY LIN, Associated Press
FTA:"…L_incoln Fire Chief Dave Whitt says firefighters allowed the propane rail tanker burn itself out after determining the car held less propane than previously thought._
He said that the blaze from the tanker burned out before midnight, but then crews reignited it to allow vapors caught in the tank to also burn away…"
The important thing is the FD strategies apparently worked_,_ situation was resolved without loss of life, and they are getting their lives back in order in Lincoln, Ca. now.
I saw that view too last evening on National News. Understanding how massive an explosion is as a Propane tank car does explode…I wandered why fireman seemed to be that close to the burning car. Forturately, it worked out ok, but I too was wondering.