Did the engineer on a Camelback have any way to judge boiler water level? Seems to me it would be hard to get a sight glass to work as he ought to be above the water level in the cab, though you could have steam cocks on pipes to crudely check for steam or water.
Or was this task entirely up to the fireman from his windy perch at the backhead?
That was the firemans job regardless of where the engineer was. Camlebacks were dangerous engines for both the fireman who sometimes got pitched off and the engineer who was vulnerable to breaking rods and boiler explosions.
Well, I know it is the fireman’s job primarily, but as somebody who has operated 15" guage steam, I cannot imagine that the engineer wasn’t at least curious as to the water level!
Any prudent individual would keep his eye on it particularly with a crewman who he hadn’t worked with before. My understanding is engineers often had the same fireman and I assume that after a period of time they would learn to trust each other or find someone they liked working with. I don’t know how you could have a sight gauge on a camelback where the engineer was located as he was well above the midpoint of the boiler. Basically the sight gauge had fittings at the bottom and top of the expected water levels. As primitive as that is it would be hard to compensate for the height differential on a camelback I would think.
…It is difficult to imagine how such a design ever got approved to build. What were they thinking…!
And as for the engineer wondering of his water level when he had thoughts of sometimes the fireman wasn’t even with him any more…{thrown off someplace back along the track…ugh…!}. And the thought of a rod flying up past him, or worse yet, not passed him, but at him…Terrible.
That is why they were outlawed.
I recall reading about an camelback engineer who was looking back at his train for some reason, leaning out the window. He forgot about the bridge. I think his fireman got suspicious when something didn’t happen that should have.
I think they had some form of communication, but I forget what it was.
The camelback was actually invented by an American crew operating an engine in Italy.
The Wooten firebox was a very wide firebox designed to burn anthracite culm (fine coal and dirt/rock mix that was considered waste from coal mines). The original Wooten firebox engines had the cab perched on top of the firebox in the normal position. In 1878 the Philadelphia and Reading RR sent a brand new 4-6-0, P&R 412, with a Wooten firebox to Europe to demonstrate the firebox and the performance of anthracite coal, trying to drum up new markets.
When the engine got to Italy the engineer figured out it was too tall to fit through the tunnels in the Alps. So he and fireman disconnected the cab and moved it to the center of the engine astride the boiler and then re-rigged the controls to be operated from the new location. the locomotive now fit through the tunnels. the demonstration was a failure, no orders came in from the trip, but when the engine returned home they realized they could increase the size of the Wooten firebox engines and still fit through the US tunnels, so camelbacks were born.
(source Holton "The Reading Railroad: History of a Coal Age Empire, Vol. 1)
Dave H.
…What a horrible product to come up with. So many dangers in it’s design. I suppose if there was anything hanging down or sticking out from a tunnel wall, we can see what might have been hit first.
but hey they saved the RR’s $2000 a year who cares about safety! [:-^]
From this photo,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Camelback.jpg
…you can see that the overhang of the wide firebox presented a vertical wall facing forward on each side. These walls almost adjoined the cab. I would think a waterglass could be placed on this vertical wall on the engineer’s side. It would essentially correspond to the position of the waterglass for the fireman on the backhead.
If it was sticking out enough to hit the cab, it would hit the cab regardless of where it was positioned.
As far as hitting something, you could make the same statement about the cab forward or any end cab locomotive (including diesels). Actually most diesel engines produced in the last 50 years have the cab in as vulnerable or more vulnerable position as a camelback. Not that it was a good design or an easy design to work with.
Dave H.
…I understand your point of the cab in front of diesels, cab forwards, etc…but with the space sticking out on the boiler edge…the engineer had NO PLACE to move…At least with the cab in back, there was room to get away from the engineers seat if the obstruction was observed coming at one in time…Also, as seen in the new Amtrak collision, the cab in front {due to design}, held up rather well to protect the crew.