Interesting conversations have been developed lately about a number of midwest topics including the ex GMO line thru Illinois, Peoria, Kankakee (and belt line), Logansport, and a resurrection of an old CN thread. Life is good once again on Trains Magazine forums.
A comparison was made between the two UP lines to St. Louis (Chicago), namely the GMO line and the CEI line. I would like to expand that a bit to concentrate on the CEI line that proceeded south from Chciago and wishboned at Woodlawn Jct, one line to Evansville the other to St. Louis and Illmo, Il.
Does anyone have an idea of the traffic patterns on these lines prior to the MoPac purchase and split to L&N in the late 60’s? I really think that was one of the more important mergers in the 60’s as:
It worked
It gave access to both MoPac and L&N to the Chicago market, thus setting a chain of mergers into play.
St. Louis was suddenly bypassed on certain traffic.
Both in historical and current views, what info do you have available on this line?
Personally, I know very little about the lines. It does seem both the CSX and UP have utilized these heavily. CN (IC) traffic levels seem about the same as 30 years ago…no doubt as traffic is now moving on parallel lines.
Does anyone have info on the operations of the UP line?
So that I don’t have to go up to my third floor(where it’s BRR!! cold now) to look this up in some railroad books, can someone please give me the background/history of the CEI? Thanks
ps. Ed- the Trains Magazine forums are whatever we make them to be.[8D]
The CSX side is very busy , CSX has been adding long sidings to help ease conjestion through Southern Indiana , they are also building a new yard for crew changes and refueling at the old KINGS Mine north of Princeton Indiana.
Not much discussion on this topic. It sorta confirms my initial thoughts that the C&EI didnt have nearly the following that other railroads had. Further, there doesnt seem to be much interest or information on the current operations.
Could it be this is one of the least railfanned lines in the Midwest?
The Chicago & Eastern Illinois had 3 GP 30s which were 239, 240 and 241. These became Missouri Pacific 590 to 592 and then Louisville and Nashville 1058 to 1060. I’d love to see a picture of them on the MP, as they were the only GP30 locomotives on the big railroad. C&EI 240 Picture
No apologies needed. I find that my interest in railroad history generally only extends as far back as my awareness. In other words, railroads that were in existance during my life are interesting to me…those corporate entities prior to that have very very little interest.
With the CEI merger in 1967, MoPac became very formidable. I have read Craig Minor’smodern history of the MoPac, but very little was discussed about the merger. Looking at Official Guides one can see there was a healthy passenger business from Chicago to Evansville, connecting with the L&N. Chicago - St Louis wasnt really a market for them as there was strong competition with IC and Wabash.
Dale, I will take a look at a couple of magazines and see if I can find any photos of hte GP30’s.
MoPac has always interested me, probably because as a nine year old in 1964 we rode the Colorado Eagle to Pueblo on family vacation.
I did find Craig Minor’s book (The Rebirth of the Missouri Pacific) to be an excellent study of the history of Mopac from the Depression era to the merger with UP. It was well written and informative. Dowling Jenks was a railroader, no doubt.
In Fred Frailey’s book Blue Streak Merchandise there is a chapter called The Great Speed War. It details how the Cotton Belt tried to merge the C&EI. The corporate relationship between the two railroads was fostered by their respective leaders: Harold McKenzie for Cotton Belt and Clair Roddewig for C&EI. The idea of bypassing St. Louis was prime in this idea as the two roads connected at Thebes, Illinois. McKenzie could not sell the idea to Espee headquarters in San Francisco and the merger idea died on the vine. The thought was that bypassing St. Louis would anger friendly connections there. The one thing that the almost merger did trigger was a speed up of national schedules across the western tier. The Blue Streak Merchandise that took 93 hours from E. St. Louis to Los Angeles was goosed up to a 65.5 hour schedule on March 14, 1958.
Speaking of the proposed C&EI/Cotton Belt merger Harold McKenzie said, “I told Mr. Russell , ‘You’re going to be in a fix. C&EI wants in with somebody, and if we don’t buy it, Missouri Pacific will.’ He didn’t agree, and that ended it.” From Blue Streak Merchandise page 34, by Fred Frailey.
Growing up in the south suburbs of Chicago, the C&EI was one of the close by roads. My grandmother frequently traveld from Evansville on the Hummingbird to visit us. We would pick her up at Crete. Wish I had a shot of that train from then.
Many years later, I worked two summers during college on the construction of Yard Center as a section laborer. (68 and 69) I remember seeing the remnant of the Hummingbird rolling by with a single E unit with what looked like a hand painted L&N on the side and two coahes. Sad.
It was during these summers I learned to drive spikes, which served me well in 72 when I started on the UP section crew at Lawrence, Ks. The assistant foreman on our gang of misfit college students at Yard Center was Herman Taylor. He is the one who taught me to spike.
Fast forward to about 1988. I am now Assistant Regional Engineer for the Soo Line at Bensenville shortly after we had bought the Milwaukee Road. One of our trains coming up from Indiana had derailed near Dolton Jct and I had to go down and make an assessment of the damage that we would be billed for on the clean up. Guess who the first person I run into there was? Herman Taylor, now foreman at Yard Center. Small world.
Took a look at an old Moody’s Manual and from 1968 thru 1971 the tonnage on the CEI really plunged. It went from 18,122,562 tons in 1968 to 11,182,613 in 1971. The biggest drop was in coal from 6.5million tons to 2.9 million tons in 1971.
So, the CEI went from being a coal carrier to a general freight carrier. I dont know if the coal fields in Southern Illinois played out, or what, but MoPac came along about the right time.
I think I can help somewhat with a picture of C&EI operations on the north end in late1964.
For trains I am sure of, they still had 3 Chgo-Evansville passenger trains. For freight operations they had two piggyback trains, one for Evansville (2nd 95) and one for St Louis (ran as 2nd 93 Yard Center-Woodland Jct). There was one night YC-Evansville general freight train (No 57) and one night YC-St Louis general freight No. 61.
What I’m not sure of is if they had another set of general freight trains for E’vill and St L. leave Yard Center in the the day time as I never worked first hours at Thornton Jct, only second and mainly third hours.
About the time the last of the GP35’s were delivered there was a once a week 100 car unit coal train from southern Illinois to the CSS&SB. During the summer and fall there was usually about five 150-170 car coal trains for the BRC.
There was also a nightly Ford Run (using a yard crew) from Yard Center to the Ford Plant at Chgo Hts on the CHTT. It took cars out to Chgo Hts and then ran thru YC on the way back and delivered the Ford cars.
My first encounter with the C&EI was in the summer of 1952 when I worked in La Grange for EMD between my junior and senior MIT years. They were still running a sparce commuter service with Stillwell coaches like the Erie’s commuter coaches out of Jersey City. This confused me into thinking the line was subsidiary of the Erie . Bob Konsbrook at EMS set me straight. At that time they still had a full service to St. Louis in competition with the Wabash and GM&O and daily service to Florida on one or more heavyweight trains and the tri-weekly streamliner Dixie Flagler. Not much of this service remained when I lived in Wesmount, IL 1967-1970.
The C&EI bowed out of the Chi - StL passenger business when they discontinued the Zipper in the 1953-4 time period due to too much competetion from the GM&O, IC and Wabash. Sometime post WW2 the C&EI put two spiffy little streamliners comlete with diner-lounges in service. These were the Meadowlark running between Chi and Thebes/Joppa and the Whiporwill (later renamed the Shawnee IIRC) between Chi and Evansville. In the mid 50’s, in addition to these two, the C&EI ran four other daily trains plus the every third day Dixie Flagler between Chi and Evansville. The Dixie Flagler and Dixie Flyer to Florida, the Georgian to Atlanta and the Hummingbird to New Orleans all operated south of Evansville on the L&N.
The C&EI main was always considered to be Chi - Evansville. Except for a few short branches, the rest of the road split off the main at Woodland Jct. (82 miles south of Chi) and ran southwest to Findlay (mp 185) where it split again with one line going the StL and the other to Cypress (mp 345). From Cypress one line continued to Jopp (mp 363) on the Ohio River and the other ran another 49 miles to Chaffee, MO crossing the Mississippi at Thebes. I believe the bridge at Thebes was owned by the C&EI though it could have been jointly owned with the Cotton Belt and/or MoPac both of which also used it.
When the MoPac bought parts of the C&EI they got access from StL into Chicago and the ICG and N&W (Wabash) both lost the MoPac freight business they formerly had between the two cities. I don’t know but assume the MoPac also acquired the C&EI’s lines between Findlay and Chaffee and Joppa. The MP already reached well into Illinois as far as Salem with a roughly parallel line of its Missouri-Illinois subsidiary. I would think the MoPac would have picked the best of the two routes to upgrade and sell off or abandon the other. I just don’t know and hopeful
Thanks for the info. I will check my old OG’s later today, but I think the CEI ran a RDC type car on the Southern Illinois route in the 50’s.
The Mopac purchase seems to have really impacted the IC. Not only did they lose the St Louis interchange, but the branch line from Evansville to Mattoon lost the L&N interchange. I recall seeing fairly large trains on that line (up to 100 cars and three GP7/9). The size of the trains started to get smaller and smaller so that by end of the 70’s a 30 car train was typical.
I believe that NS routes it’s Chicago - Decatur traffic on the CN (down to Gilman) then to Farmer City and then ex Wabash route to Decatur.
MoPac changed the railroading landscape considerably with that purchase of CEI. It really set things in motion as far as future mergers were concerned.
Mark & All: I’ll fill you all in on the bridge linking Thebes, Illinois with Illmo, Missouri. The bridge was owned by the Southern Illinois & Missouri Bridge Company or SIMBCO. The company was owned 60% by Missouri Pacific and 40% by St. Louis Southwestern. Data from Moody’s.