Still early 30’s , Mark? I keep wanting to say the City of Miami / Dixie Flagler / South Wind to FEC #3 at JAX but that’s wrong due to time frame. I think I’m close in the neighborhood though, just not the right era.
Buck, you’re getting very close but FEC No. 3 was not one of the trains.
Remember we’re looking for four different trains, three of which were all Pullman while the coaches carried in the fourth one did not run through to the common end point terminal as did the sleepers.
Mark
Although I knew the IC’s Seminol as a secondary train, I believe at one time it was the flagship of the IC’s M<idwest - Florida service, so I would hazard a guess it is the train you are refering to. I think it was all-Pullman at one time. South of Jacksonville, it would probably use the best FEC traini to Miami to handle its sleepers, and that would certainly be the Florida Special. It would be better to use one SAL train to both Tampa and St. Pete than two ACL trains, so the St. Pete section of the Orange Blossom Speical makes sense. But to get to Manatee and Sarasato, a through Pullamn probably was carried in a coach and sleeper train from Tampa.
There were all sorts of bizarro world connections down here in Florida. Most think, natually, that the OBS came to JAX when, in fact, in the glory days of the OBS, you had to take a bus from JAX to Baldwin, FL to catch the train as it did not come into Jax terminal but took what is known as the Yulee Cutoff. The other weird connection was the pickup and dropoff (not the Russian limo company) of sleepers from trains at this fire plug called Hampton, FL.
Mark, I’m besides myself trying to figure this out.
For all I know a Florida sleeper off the Seminal might have been handled to and from St. Louis from and to Cairo by a gas-electric coach-baggage-mail car.
Going southbound, the train that ran on the common leg carried all but two of its Pullmans to one terminal city. The two exceptions were dropped off 67 miles short of that city.
Keep after it Buck. You got the route correct in one of your earlier replies but mis-identified the train.
Mark
Yes Buck, one was an all Pullman FEC train that ran between Jacksonville and Miami. It carried 13 sleepers that ran north of Jax in three other trains. Six of the Pullmans were Chicago-Miami cars, two were St. Louis-Miami cars and one each were Detroit, Cleveland and Cincinnati-Miami cars. The two dropoffs were Chicago-West Palm Beach cars. All that’s needed to wrap up this question are the names of the trains.
Mark
An odd question did the Perry cutoff figure into this? Thx IGN
I expect everyone’s grown pretty tired of this question by now so here are the answers.
The FEC train was No’s 39 & 40 , the Biscayne, which ran between Jacksonville and Miami. It carried six Chicago-Miami sleepers; three of these ran north of Jax in the all Pullman Dixie Ltd., two in the all Pullman Floridan and one in the coach and Pullman Flamingo. The same two trains carried both a St. Louis-Mia and a Chi-W. Palm Beach car. The Flamingo carried a Detroit-Mia, a Cleveland-Mia and a Cincinnati-Mia car. The St.L section of the Dixie Ltd. carried coaches but only between between StL and Evansville. Between Evansville and Jax the DL ran as an all Pullman train.
Since Buck Dean was the only one to get any part of this question he gets to field the next one.
Mark
No problem, but I would point out that I did give a technically correct answer to the first question as stated: eastbound only, true, but still, the Super to the Broadway, Century, and Capitol. So in compensation, please answer something that puzzles me. The three “streamliner” carriers for the Florida trade leaving Chicago were the C&EI, PRR, and IC. But I also recall the Southern’s Ponce de Leon and Royal Palm, Cincinnati-Jacksonville, with through cars Chicago - Miami, possibly St.Pete as well on the south and DEtroit and Cleveland on the north. Chicago cars were handled by the NYCentral. How did the overall running timje compare with the three majors, both in the heavyweight era and post WWII? Is my memory correct on this?
And am I correct that the IC’s Seminol was once all-Pullman?
Dave, while there were minor differences in their schedules, the City of Miami, Southwind and Dixie Flagler all made their Chicago-Miami runs in about 30-1/2 hours. The Royal Palm ran Chicago-Miami in just under 40 hrs. The pre-WW2 Florida Sunbeam had a 34 hr - 45 min schedule making it the Southern’s fastest Chicago-Miami train.
I can’ speak to all times, but as far as I know the S_eminole_ was never all Pullman.
Mark
So basically, the Southern route was competitive in the heavyweight era, but pretty much dropped out of the competition when the streamliners were introduced. Is my understanding correct that there were never any through coaches via Southern in this market, just Pullmans.
Actually, Dave, the Southern never was much of a player in the Chicago - Florida market. Its Florida trains mainly served Detroit, Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, Cincinnati and intermediate points. Until the late 40"s or early 50"s SR trains carried a single Chi-Mia sleeper which ran northbound in the Ponce de Leone and southbound in the Royal Palm. Circa 1930, both the Royal Palm DeLuxe and the Suwanee River Special carried a Chi-Mia sleeper. Both these were winter season only trains.
I looked back as far as 1930 and could find no SR through coach service to any city in Florida except Jacksonville.
Mark
Travling to Charlottesville at age 10 on the Southener and returning to NY on a C&O local and a regular Washington - NY PRR train was my first experience traveling on railroads that did not serve NYCity directly or via ferry boats, and I remember being intregued by the names of the two Southern Cincinnati - Jacksonville trains as I studied the timetable. But later I never rode those trains. Did ride the City of Miami, probably twice, and the Southwind once. The latter in PC days, with slow orders on the PC track from Chicago to Lousiville and the equipment not in the best shape. The IC did keep things up, howeverm on the City of Miami.
If I am truely up, then here’s a real easy one so that the next quiz master can step up.
Of all the innovations in passenger railroading of the 1950’s, which is the only one that worked; albeit too late to do any good?
slumbercoach/sleepercoach. magnetic credit card readers and cards and aceptance for meals as well as tickets. Low center-of-gravity and tilting equipment, like the the PRR Keystone (low center-of-gravity).
I would be tempted to add double-deck long-distance cars, the Sante Fe highlevel cars, except they were of great use, since the Superliners were based on their design.
TV in lounge cars.
I’m going with the RDC.
Ok, gang, the KEY word here is ONE. So, to be fair, somebody pick the correct ONE and tell me what it is. No “skeet choke” here hoping to hit something. [:P]
Dome cars?
OK. But you are asking us to read your mind, since obviuosly there are several correct answers.
RDCs cannot be right, since some are moving people today.Domes still bring riders to the Canadian.
From those I posted, I’ll pick TV in lounge cars.