Communication between the Cabose & Engineer

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

I forget if it was in Classic Trains or Trains, but it seems like a year and a half ago, Trains had a good story about a young kid who worked in a station house on the Road Island–I think in Iowa, maybe Manly. During a snow storm, a freight train missed its orders–apparently not seeing them altogether.

After the cabose also missed the orders, the kid lit a flare and waived it at the train but the train kept going. The kid, then ran into the station and called headquarters in a panic–knowing that the orders included an unusual incoming local and required the freight train to take an unusual siding.

The kid was, naturally, concerned that, due to the near white-out conditions caused by the snow storm, one of the two trains may run through a signal and there would be a head-on collission.

As it turned out, as one of the cabose men was taking a bite of his sandwich, he happened to glance back and see the kid waiving the flare. Five minutes later, the freight train backed up to the station and an appreciative engineer received its orders.

Question:

In those days, without radio, how did the cabose man communicate to the engineer that the train had missed the orders and to back up to the station?

Gabe

2

I have no idea how routine communication would have occurred between the tail and head end on long trains. However, in the case of an emergency, the conductor or tail-end brakeman could drop the air.

3

I don’t think that happened in this case, as the train backed into the station about 4-5 minutes after it went by. Had it dropped the air, I don’t think it could have recharged the brakes in that time period.

But, maybe that was the case.

Gabe

4

Depends on the railroad.

If it was the PRR, thy had an inductive system called Train phone, a forerunner of portable radio, that used the telegraph lines through inductive fields…the caboose and locomotive had handsets that works like a telephone…type Trainphone into your search engine for more info…this system lasted well into the 1970s.

On roads without this system, the conductor would have made a brake line reduction, alerting the engineer he (the conductor) wanted to stop.

Most cabooses have a train line brake valve to allow the conductor to control back up movements.

The engineer would had both felt the brakes apply, and seen the brake pipe pressure drop, he would have got off the throttle and allowed the train to stop or stopped it his self…then both he and the fireman would have looked for lantern signals from the caboose.

If conditions prevented them seeing lantern signals, they would have waited till the rear brake man walked up to the locomotive and informed them what happened.

The conversation would have gone something like this…

“Joe missed his copy of the orders, he wants you to back up so he can get them, he will stop us at the station. When he wants you to proceed, he will release the brakes”

The engineer would have begun backing up, as slow as he felt safe, till the conductor set the brakes…then, when the conductor had his copy of the orders, he would released the brakes, the signal to proceed.

The engineer would have dragged the train out a little slow…when the conductor wanted him to slow down to pick up the rear brakeman, he would have done another slight reduction on the brakes.

When you consider the sheer number of trains, this would not be too uncommon an occurrence…train men have communicated like this for a long time.

Rear brakemen would, on some reverse moves, position themselves about half way in the train, and pass hand or lantern signals fr

5

Going with Gabe’s scenario, if the head-end crew missed the orders as well, the engineer (if awake) should have initiated the stop himself.

6

Back in “good old days” before radios (and before the FRA mandated that the ladders and handbrakes be lowered), the train crew would position themselves on TOP of the traincars in order to pass signals…a very nerve-wracking experience at night in an area you are not intimately familiar with. It’s a sinking feeling that one gets when riding on the top of a boxcar and you feel the slap of the tell-tales hit you in the face!

7

I beleive it was my dad that told me the caboose had an air horn that could be used for signaling the head end and also used for grade crossings for backup moves. The time frame may have been before The Great War.
I asked the engineer of the 1880 train just last month how the conductor would get his attention without 2way radio. He said they wave like crazy, or make a brake application.

8

I had to dig out my issue, Classic Trains Spring 2006 issue, and look thru the article. In that story the train stopped and came back for the order because the fireman noticed the kid’s car parked at the depot and looked back from the engineer’s side. He saw him giving a stop signal with a fusee. The rear end also missed the order.

The color light type train order signal was burned out and the train came thru town after the normal office hours. At that time, color light train order signals were turned off when the depot was closed. The next rule book coming out about a year later required color light train order signals to be lit constantly, even when the office was normally closed.

At the time of the story engines, cabooses and some stations were equipped or being equipped with radios. The kid even tried the depot’s radio, but received no response. Radios weren’t always reliable back then. Even about 10 years afterward when I started hanging around the local Rock Island depot at Marengo, Iowa it wasn’t too unusual for either the engine or caboose to not have a working radio. Without a working radio if the train was too long for hand signals to be seen, using the conductor’s air valve would be the only way to let the head end know that they needed to stop.

BTW, the “kid” in the story is now the head of the Iowa Northern RR, Dan Sabin.

Jeff

9

Huh, I could have sworn I remember something about the cabose man eating a sandwich, but it had been a while since I received that issue.

I didn’t mean “kid” pejoritively, I jus didn’t know how else to demarcate his name, as I was relating the story by memory.

In any event, the kid knows how to tell a pretty good story for me to randomly think about it a year and a half after having read it.

Gabe

10

…As for spokyone mentioning the “caboose air horn”…I really don’t know what it was called, but I have heard the warning “whistle”…that’s what it sounded like to me…as a caboose would be the leading car as a train backed across a road crossing. I’m sure it was “powered” by the air brake line. Wasn’t very loud and really did sound like a whistle. But doubt if the engineer would be able to hear it up front. At least the ones I heard working. A crewman would be standing on the “porch” and seemed to have control of the whistle as the train backed across the crossing.

11

There was a valve on the back of the caboose that allows brake-pipe air to flow through a whistle (same principal used in referee’s whistles, but without the marble). It was incredibly shrill and loud.

12

Gabe, I understand you didn’t mean “kid” in a bad way and I appologize if you thought I had taken offence.

Mr. Sabin was the featured speaker at last year’s Rock Island Tech. Society’s annual meeting. He really needs to write a book. He only had about 1 1/2 - 2 hours to tell some stories of his working as an operator and dispatcher on the RI. Way too short a time.

Jeff

PS, It was the engineer who had reached down to grab a sandwich and thermos when coming into Iowa Falls. Manly was DRS’s home town.

13

Jeff,

No offense taken here, I just wanted to make clear that I wasn’t insulting Mr. Sabin. I seem to remember reading something else extremely positive about him recently, but I can’t quite put my finger on it.

Gabe

14

The Santa Fe used wig-wags mounted to the cupolas for a time. I don’t recall exactly what all could be communicated to the engineer with them, but I do believe it was fairly limited.

I have also been told that the whistle was used to signal the head end.

15

I vaguely recall a situation where I was watching a train that was stopped for awhile, and the engineer blew his whistle to call in a flagman. About 3 minutes later you could hear the caboose blast a “proceed” on the whistle they had. Whithin a couple minutes the train was on it’s way. This would be back in the mid to late 50’s. I also recall that “pushers/helpers” always repeated what the lead engine blew, except for the crossing whistle. Wow, would that be something to witness today!

Jim

16

…For anyone interested, as Ed mentioned, of Pennsylvania RR’s TrainPhone system, find pictures of engines, steamers and or diesels and cabin cars…{cabooses}, and note {if they have the system}, they will have a hand rail like looking “pipe” arrangement across the length of the top of these cars and tenders and engines. That was the “antenna”.

17

Power for the radio is evident in these pics of CBQ10143 in HotSprings SD.
What voltage was used for the caboose power?

18

The signaling disks on Santa Fe cabeese were used for making an air test. They mimicced hand signals. Waving side to side to set the air and held straight up to release.

19

“Demacrate”?

20

Greyhounds:

It means “to note” or “mark and set apart” or something like that.

Didn’t the ERIE have cabooses with a set of full air-horns for long back-up movements? On the tourist railroad I go to, they have a pigtail that connects to the air hose and has a whistle to blow for grade crossings while backing. It also has a valve to dump the air if the whistle didn’t work.