I have been collecting Lionel since the age of about 8 (thanks dad) and for about 25 years after (although sporadically) and have focused almost exclusively on O gauge. I guess I have a somewhat modest collection for a collector, less than 200 pieces most likely (of total rolling stock, sets are included in that along with buildings). I do have several (maybe 20) pieces of Standard Gauge. I have no layout now, but want to build one again soon now that I have settled into some space again.
My dillema is that I have been “bit” by Standard Gauge since seeing such a layout recently. I am considering selling most of my O Gauge to finance a transition to Standard. I think I just love the presence of Standard gauge, the simplicity, antiquity, etc. I am not really into scale modeling, but would like something authentic as it might have appeared in the early days of Lionel. I could probably never afford a great condition premium original Standard set, but I suspect I could put some things together over the years piece by piece. I’m not at all interested in the MTH repros or the new Lionel Standard stuff available recently. Nor do I want to combine an O with Standard on the same layout.
I would greatly appreciate any honest, informative thoughts/ideas/feedback on this. Thank you all in advance.
Just like postwar Lionel. If you buy stuff thats cheap then you buy junk. Standard Gauge commands top dollar for nice pieces…even without a box. It’s large, crude and mysterious at the same time. I was into once for about 10min. Then I came to my senses and went back to pristine postwar. Though it would be nice to own a 400E. I just can’t see spending $5,000 on a 400E with such a toy look to it. The stuff from the 40’s and 50’s is a crude as I go. [8D]
SG isn’t crude: it’s art, and it’s no more expenxive than postwar on the whole. Really decent sets go on eBay in the $400-$600 range; EX+ for about twice that or so. Modern Era, brand-new product doesn’t go for any less (I think Frank Petruccio was the first to make that point in the popular press).
I’ve been bitten by SG, too, though I won’t switch entirely (I have too muc invested in O: $$$$, nostalgia/memories, and commonality with the rest of the family. Like khdawg, I prefer the originals rather than the new Lionel (and I won’t touch anything made by MTH). I can’t afford much, but I can tinker and refurbish, and it looks spiffy under the Christmas tree.
I, too, am interested in knowing why you have no interest in the contemporary stuff. It’s as well or better made, in most cases, than a lot of the original items, and it’s relatively affordable. I’m not knocking the original items or those who collect them, but I’m kind of interested in knowing why folks might turn their nose up at the great Standard Gauge items that are being offered today. I have a whole lot of Standard Gauge (all contemporary–Lionel, MTH, McCoy, etc.), but wouldn’t have any had it not been for Richard Kughn and Mike Wolf.
“I’m kind of interested in knowing why folks might turn their nose up at the great Standard Gauge items that are being offered today.”
My reason is simple. I don’t want replicas of Lionel’s iconic models that have been reproduced, without any acknowledgement of the original maker, and bearing the “MTH” logo where the “Lionel” logo should go on a proper reproduction. I wouldn’t want a replica of a Frank Lloyd Wright house with “Levitt” embossed on the front door either :). A small point, but one that is meaningful to me.
I will relate a story to illustrate my position. Thru various events, I had acquired an original 8E set and a restored 10E, and I wanted a 384E to complete my collection of desired small SG engines. I located one at a large mail order firm and purchased it with the understanding that it did run. While it looked great, it would not turn over. The dealer made a full refund. For nearly the same amount of money, I was able to purchase a MTH RTR set that also had a caboose and box car with a Z1000 transformer. The sounds and smoke are incredible. While I will not tinker with the 8E, the 10E may be getting a new sound system as well. I enjoy collecting and running the original, but the new stuff is much cheaper than original in the same condition.
For one thing, I like the patina. Seriously, I prefer the used (and even abused) over the new and shiny. These toys have a history; it gives me a great deal of pleasure to ponder what kids may have played with them–where, when, and how. If only they could talk!
Further, the new stuff leaves no room to tinker. And I have no desire whatsoever for can motors or sound system! They ruin the tinplate charm for me.
That being said, I have picked up one repro, a Scenic Plot made by Ron Morris. I figure that it’s got a history in its own right
The other reason is my pig-headedness. I refuse to line Mike Wolf’s pockets. It’s not a popular position today, but I have my reasons, some rational, some not so.
I’m certainly not stuck on Lionel, though: about 1/3 of my rolling stock is IVES (as is about half my track), and I’m looking at some Flyer.
Thanks for all the replies and please keep the insights coming. I truly like original, vintage items the best, scratches, missing handrails and all. There is something wonderful about knowing the pieces actually came from such an early era in Lionel production and in knowing some things about that history. The MTH stuff is nice looking, but almost looks too perfect to me. Also, the few MTH accessories I have bought have been poorly constructed and some have even fallen apart (clock tower, lights, etc). Maybe this is simply because I was buying cheap accessories, I have never owned any of the tinplate traditions sets or cars.
I am also wondering how easy it would be to find someone reputable to service these items (vintage SG).
Thanks again and please keep replies pros/cons insights coming!!
Prewar wise, I’m attracted to professionaly restored tinplate “O” for a number of reasons. First the nostalgia aspect. It was probably gotten by some kid in the 20’s or 30’s, and looks “new”(as it did when they got it). It’s manageable, for me, in terms of running on my current “O” layout, as well as display space. It’s more affordable, since few people want restored or “O”(compared to “Standard”). I only buy this at train shows to see the true quality of the restoration. By the way, I have no interest in a prewar “scale” Lionel loco pulling tinplate rolling stock…a goofy looking combination, IMO. Joe
Once again, we have a great example of how diverse, and fun this hobby is. Here we’re talking Std. Gauge, and we’re very blessed to have options. Whether you want vintage, or the latest technology… you can choose! It’s that simple. I’m not mister tinker by any stretch of the imagination, so if I were to make the switch, or go in this direction, I’d go with new production. Are they shiny, or what??? That said… how can you not love the vintage stuff, and the history. Imagine being a kid in the 1920’s getting a Lionel Train set… that had to be about tops. It’s still tops. [:D] Good luck with the change… I bet you’re gonna have some fun.
Greg
One more point to consider. Regardless of your preference for new or old engines and rolling stock, the re-issues MTH did on the switches were outstanding. I did a review for CTT on them a couple of years ago, and I have five on my layout now. While you can get by with old curves and straights (although I am gradually replacing those), the frustration factor with old switches can really ruin some good operating sessions. List price on them is comparable to list on remote Fasttrack and O-31 switches so they are not totally unreasonable, and they have extra plastic between the rails to prevent “roller drop” that even the best original Lionel did not have.
Wow, when I see pix like that I’d like to get a standard gauge myself! These are big trains. I just don’t have the room for the them. I have barely enough room for my O.
For what it’s worth, I really prefer original over new production. I agree with some of the comments here about the originals and their history. I don’t mind restored if it’s done right, and honestly if it’s not restored and it looks new, I’d be afraid to run it. Niceks and scratches means someone enjoyed the train before me. I kinda like that idea.
Anyway, good luck with your decision. There are a lot of nice prewar O gauge trains that have the Standard gauge look. If you haven’t looked at them, they might be worth thinking about too.
BTW, anyone considering Standard Gauge really ought to get hold of a copy of David doyle’s new book, the Standard Catalog of Prewar Lionel Trains. In addition to th other common references, this book provides a multitude of very helpful illustrations and good coverage of the evolution of the variations. It covers 2 7/8", Standard, O, and OO till '42. It’s a bargain at around $25.
