HEY everyone how are we all doin today I was wondering this on UP they use a helper engine on their coal trains but CP rail does not. Is there a reason why. I was wondering maybe it’s the diffrent tracks you know like diffrent grades.Cause everytime I see a coal train going south right by my work.I usally can watch the whole thing and when the end comes by. I don’t see a helper pushing the end along. Can someone please give me info on this cause. I would really like to know
A given grade for a certain tonnage requires a certain amount of horsepower to get the train up and over it…I am guessing the rail lines you are comparing are different grades and we really don’t know how the tonnage and horsepower compares on the trains you are seeing. Just my [2c].
If I recall, the coal trains go west from the mountains to Vancouver to ship the coal by sea. So, the grades are essentially downhill. If there are uphill grades to contend with earlier in their runs, I would guess that they have helpers in that location…only.
Stand on the Tswassen to Schwartz Bay ferry terminal (BC mainland to Vancouver Island) and watch the long long trains arriving over at Roberts Bank ship terminal with coal for the far east, you’ll see helpers spliced in at various places along the length of the train.
I think what you are seeing is a DPU ( distributed power unit) not quite a helper but an un manned remote that helps with train handling. UP and BNSF use these set ups but no one else likes them it seems. When we get a Chicago DP unit in Galesburg we have to go out unlink and run the DP motor to the head end ( sometimes this is complicated by the fact that it is facing the wrong way and we have to spin the power). In my mind it seems to be more of a problem than a solution really but hey I dont make the decisions.
We are also getting on a kick of DP power on ore trains and some Manifest trains ( want to see a yard meltdown? watch on a night with only two sets of hoslters on duty with three dps coming in and none of the power getting tied on to the outbounds!)
Hope this helps answer your question.
You are seeing DPU’s on CP coal trains heading to Roberts Bank from the south east corner of BC . Normall consist has one at the head end one at the tail end. They may add an additional loco through the Rogers Pass – would need verification of that . They used to add units through that area before the Mcdonald tunnel was opened . The trains run through the dumper at Roberts Bank & then head back to the coalfields. CN uses 2 units up front on their coal trains from that area .
I believe that “somewhere near the tracks” is in Wisconsin for you, right?
Then this is distributed power that you’re seeing on UP coal trains. Along with the power on the rear, you may be seeing (1) fewer units on the point than on the CPRS trains, or (2) fewer cars–by 10 to 20–on the CPRS trains than on the UP trains. The big arguments in favor of distributed power are the ability to run longer trains with better control of train dynamics (i.e., slack action, etc.), and quicker brake response.
Selector, The coal mines are in and around the “mountains” but on the EAST side, which means they must go up and over the mountains then they go downhill to the Pacific south west @ Roberts bank.
CP does run some “Conventionalized” coal trains. Most of the time CP coal trains have a DPU helper on the tail pushing and one or 2 locomotives on the head end. At CN we do not run any robot helpers, except the CPR coal trains we run from Boston Bar to Lynn Creek.
THe CP coal trains that pass through Milwaukee southbound (train #888) are much shorter than the UP coal trains. The CP trains are usually about 90 cars long, whereas the UP coal trains that go to Pleasant Prairie are 130 cars long, hense the need for DP.
CP train #888 is Petroleum Coke from the Flint Hills Resources refinery at Roseport, MN to the powerplant north of Terre Haute, IN. CP’s coal trains through Milwaukee are numbered in the 86x or 87x series and are Met. Coal for coke making at steel mills. They are sized to haul coal in lots purchased by the steel mills, although CP rates do influence them. Not need for helpers across the Soo Line for trains that size.
I’m pretty sure on CP’s Rogers Pass they do use helper alot on Coal trains
Thanks, I was aware of that. As I stated earlier, helpers would help in the districts where the load and grade demands it, but the run from near Revelstoke west is essentially downhill.
If I recall, the 2-10-4 Selkirks were named for the range in which they were found doing much of their mountain hauling…
Thanks again, tatans.
I live in Nineveh Junction, near the D&H / CP line between Binghamton and Albany NY. Back in the 1970s and 1980s we would often see helpers on most trains running up Belden Hill in either direction. Going towards Binghamton the helpers would switch in right here in Nineveh Junction. Today we never see helpers, and there are some really long coal trains passing through here. I’m not an expert on such things, but I’m assuming this change is due in part to increased speeds on the better maintained track and increased power of modern equipment.