Note: I’m thinking about switching to DCC sometime around Christmastime.
I’ve been looking into DCC Systems for a while now, as the track-planning phase of the layout is ciming nearer and nearer to completion. At the moment I have a MRC Tech 4 220 that will power everything - after it’s built that is.
Now before you cringe and run away screaming about my DC throttle… or try to tell me that I wasted my money on said throttle - I like DC, and I have had DC for as long as I have had trains. It is also not a problem for me, as I only have one loco that will actually be on the layout at this time.
With that said, I want to move into DCC because I know it adds so much to the functionality of a layout (not to mention all of the other cool things you can do with it). I have been reading up on all of the tech data for the systems currently available, as well as the reviews that have been made of them. (on a side note - tom, that was a great piece you did for the PowerCab)
Because of this, I have detemined that I will most likely go with a Digitrax system, however I don’t know where to go from there.
-I could get the Zephyr, and be limited in what I am able to do (ie stuck to the throttle, only F0-F8 keys, etc)
Or maybe its the Empire Builder thats right for me. But wait - Its more expensive, but I can’t read back CV’s like I can with the Zephyr. Whats the deal there!? Leaving that…problem…to the sidelines, I like the full range of the Function keys, as well as the other features that the Empire Builder allows me (more amps, walk around throttle, etc)
But then there’s the Super Chief - Tony’s has it for relatively cheap (same price as the Empire Builder MSRP). It has everything that make I could ever want in a DCC system(and probably even more than I would use at the moment) - well, until they come out with some new goodies for us, that is [;)].
I looked at my power needs first since that is what is going to come off the control system… the locomotives.
My hungry children were a set of 4 BLI F7’s working together as a consist.
Zephyr is out. Too kindergarden in power.
Empire Builder could run it and did. But has no read ability. Programming is guesswork to me. Trial and error… takes a while.
Therefore I went with the 8 amp Chief backed by a 20 amp power supply as to provide future power districts with additional Command Boosters. I can go with one more 8 amp or two 5 amp districts in the distant future.
It was very expensive this year and the LHS discount helped greatly. About half of my budget for the year was consumed with this purchase but I will not ever have to worry about buying another control system for at least 5 more years. I only recall buying 3 control systems over thirty years. two analog and my first DCC. One analog is worn out and the other is doing ok on the workbench but at only 1.6 amps I cannot bench test my ABBA Consist.
I have a feeling I will not be buying any more control systems for 15+ years.
Staying away from Radio for now kept things rather simple for me. However on larger layouts radio does help the operator follow the train instead of trying to get to the next plug.
Keep in mind that the Zephyr is a good control system most likely very useful for yard work and those with small layouts with plenty of power to run two or three locomotives.
The Empire Builder is a good 5 amp system that you pretty much can do what you want to but cannot read decoders which was one of the things I wanted to do.
After I get the trackwork in place, i will have mainly a switching layout, because of space limitations…
essentially I’m modelling a small(ish) engine terminal/interchange - so there will be few locos running at any time…
so the Zephyr would fill my needs there
smallish layout, with mostly switching
few locos running at a time
Though, I do want to have this last for as long as possible without having to replace part (or all) of it in the future just to keep it working. Maybe the Empire Builder would then be a better choice - I get more power for more locos (always good I would imagine), though I give up the readability of the CV’s…
now, lets say I do go the Empire Builder route - would I be able to use one of the computer DCC tools to read the CV’s off the decoders?
There is a adapter availible that you can place into your Personal Computer and under windows and with software look into your locomotives.
I myself am interested in such an option because I have quite a few Broadways that I would like to assign addresses etc but worry about software compatibility, computer power to the program track off the adapter etc.
Between the DCC and the Computer there will be a solution that best suits everyone.
It sounds, based upon your immediate and anticipated needs, that the Zephyr will do all you need it to do. You can always add boosters and throttles when the time to upgrade and to add to your layout present themselves.
I would suggest a zephyr. If you need the extra function keys just plug in a DT400 throttle for all of the functions and walkaround capability. You can always add radio or IR if you want to. The best thing about Digitrax IMO is thier ease in expandability. As far as the zephyr not having enough power, I have run 7 locomotives (2 with sound) at the same time and not had a problem. But if you really do need more power just plug in a booster.
As far as I’m concerned, the ability to read back CVs is very important, especially if you get into sound. Otherwise if you dont write down all of your CV values you will not know your starting point and will just be guessing.
As long as you dont have reversing segments (loops, wyes, turntables) you will not need a polarity reversing module and the zephry alone will be just fine. If you do need a reverse module, again, just plug it in.
Personally I went with the Digitrax Super chief 5 amp it has a lot more flexibility . You must always take into consideration for expanding the layout or the locos that will run on it. I’m running sound in my steamers which will take a bit of power.
I started out with two MRC-20s (DC control) berfore switching to DCC. I had just moved from an apartment modular layout to a new basement; (with a three bedroom ranch house on top pf the basement to keep the rain and snow off othe trains.) The MRC power packs were great but who can be happy only running two trains…on any size of a layout???
I dove into DCC by purchasing a Super Chief (radio) and an Empire builder, two 5 AMP power supplies. The Chief came with the DCS100 which is a Digitrax command station; the empire builder came with a DB150 which can be used as a limited command station or smart booster for auto reversing. At the time I had to program my decoders witha DT-100 throttle. To improve things I purchased an MS-100 which is a Digitrax computer interface and purchased decoder programing software. I now use the MS-100 and Decoder Pro Software (free). Programing decoders is simple. I also purchased a DT-400 throttle for programing but recommed computer interface if it is available. I have since picked up additional throttles and another DB150 on Ebay. You should plan on about 5 AMPs of power per booster. I usually allow one AMP per powered locomotive on the layout, so the three units will allow for an average of 15 powered locomotives at one time. (The new locomotives draw less current but add sound and you will need more power anyway.)
If you can afford it I would start with the Digitrax Super Chief. You will also need to purchase a good quality 5 AMP power suppy. You can upgrade the system to wireless at some future date by adding a UR-91 radio reciever. (Just plug it into your Loconet. You will also need wireless throttles.)
If you have a computer available skip the expensive DT-400 throttle (although I understand they are included in the Super Chief set.) I have owned and used DT-100, DT-300, DT-400 and UT-1 throttles. You only need one throttle for programming decoders. All of your othe
I hear ya - you forgot the “If you short 5amps thru a loco its probably gonna die” bit.
The reason I need a reversing section/module/whatever is because my layout is going to have a TT on it.
Jamnest -
Thanks for the insight [:)]. I completely disregarded sound or anything “fun” like that when I listed my current and future needs out of the DCC system. I hope to be able to add Tortoises to the layout as well, although with what they cost, it looks like I’m going to be wiring up a few CDU’s instead… and while I’m on the topic of stationary DCC stuff - can I wire a decoder to the motoring kit for a TT and use that to drive the TT? I know that it may not necessarily have indexing or anything, but using DCC for that rather than a DC throttle or something seems like itd make for a much smoother operation…
Computer vs. DT-400 - as you said the Chief comes with the DT-400, and since i don’t have any spare computers lying around at the moment… looks like I’m going to be using the cab to do a lot of programming, but since the system is expandable at a later date - maybe I’ll get a computer hooked up to the DCC at some point.
If you can afford the Super Chief, you will be increasingly happy with each passing month. If it is beyond the budget, the Zephyr will get you started, but eventualy cost you more. Avoid the Empire Builder. Eventually you will want to read CVs.
I am a fan of radio, and would have saved $100 by starting with it. The ability to walk with the train you are running is wonderful, and IR did not work for me.
Plan for the future. I use an old 550mhz Pentium III with Windows 98 to connect to my layout and DCC system. I had purchased a new PC and was going to toss this one as Microsoft no longer supports Windows 98. I wiped the hard drive clean and re-loaded the orginal Windows 98 software that came with the PC. The JMRI Decoder Pro uses Java which you can also download for free from Sun Micro Systems. My point being if you plan for the future you may be able to pick up a good PC that is of no value to anyone but can be used for your layout. A lot of companies give away or sell old PCs cheep as they are not of much value because they can’t run Windows XP software.
If you are going with Digitrax, start with the Chief (DCS-100 Command Station) and you can add components as your railroading needs expand.
I am afraid not…because the computer programs rely on the controller being able to read the existing CV settings, (learned the hard way) I got the SEB and I can program by hit and miss, and can use it for a booster if needed at shows for more power districts. I am buying a DCS 100 control unit separately so I will have both and be able to read back. I already have a DT400 and a UT4. If I didn’t I would buy the Super Chief to have the DT400. The nice thing with the 400 is the ability to control turnouts, too! jc5729
At the moment, I have nothing even resembling that… my oldest computer probably has 6 year old guts… that still run fine (1.5Ghz Proc 768MB RAM, 40GB HDD). Everything else that I have is markedly newer than that, and I don’t like the idea of custom building junk just to have a cheapie computer for my layout. Maybe I can cannabalize an old laptop from somewhere… or just wait till summer begins again and “salvage” one (or a few) of the many computers (and other goodies) that my college will be getting rid of… (ah, the joys of working for the IS dept [;)])
From what everyone is saying now, it seems i should just pony up and get the Chief… even at ~$400 with a power supply (going from what tony’s has it listed as), thats a whole lot less expensive than the “rebuild my computer” contingency plan I had (seriously, like a third the cost)… good thing my parents OK’d the layout space… [^]
Until then… I have to:
Build Benchwork
Lay/Wire the trackage
Get everything fine tuned (on DC)
and a whole lot of other things
Good thing I have pretty much free time coming up fro
Actually the computer you have will work great for the layout. Until I moved the old PC to the train room I ran a 50’ phone cord from my PC in the den to the loco net. You do not need to connect it to the layout all of the time. You will need a USB Locobuffer II. The Locobuffer II will connect to a USB port on your computer. You connect a 6 wire RJ12 modular cable from your loco buffer to your Digitrax Loco Net. Down load Decoder Pro and use it to program your locomotive decoders. Decoder Pro also has a program called Panel Pro that you can use your PC as multiple throttles. When you are not using the layout you can disconnect the line to the loconet.
oh, i know it’ll work… i just don’t know how happy people would be if I commandeered that computer (its a floor above where the layout is going to be…
although, i wonder if there’s a way to “convince” the JMRI software to run through a LAN to a USB interface on another device… if I could do that, its a simple matter of getting a USB print server and reconfiguring JMRI to talk to it…
I have thought of using a LAN connection too as my home is hardwired for LAN and wireless, with a USB print server, but it is beyound my technical ability. I just ran a temporary loconet cable from the PC to the loconet. When I was not using the computer for programing I disconnected the cable. Not a problem now as the layout has its own computer.